Rear Hub Rebuild

[71tr]

How do you know if your rear hubs need rebuilding? Do you hear the squeal of a seezed bearing or feel a whobble in the wheel? If the hubs are off the car already should I just go ahead and have them rebuilt regardless of their apparent condition? If so what shops provide the best rebuild services?

 

[Guest]

Not sure of the symptoms of bad hubs. When I bought my car, EVERYTHING needed to be redone (bought a good body and frame). TRF redid my hubs and differential. Nice work and fair price (not cheap). You may want to take a really hard look at the mounting bolts that hold the hub onto the aluminum swing arm. These usually will wallow out. I went ahead and HeliCoiled all of mine (the PO had actually GLUED them in with JBWeld he got from WalMart).

Bill

an addendum: someone mentioned another method of redoing stripped threads in aluminum, said it was superior to HeliCoil. Might want to ask around, could be worth looking into. HeliCoil works but I am always open to an improvement in anything. My wife doesn't usually agree.

 

[Andy Blackley]

On mine I could grab the top of the rear wheels and shake them in and out and felt a lot of free play. Since the history of the car was essentially unknown to me I assumed (correctly) that they were shot. If they are already out, and you are not confident in their previous history, and if any play is in evidence, I would replace them.
I got mine rebuilt through Scott Harper at Team Triumph, which is in Warren, Ohio. Axleworks in NC is also recommended.
An interesting recent thread on the UK TR Register forum concerning catestrphic hub failure implies that rebuilt hubs might cause problems down the road if a lot of stress was induced during disassembly.
Brand new would be safe, obviously, but expensive. You pays yer money...etc.

 

[Mark_Gibson]

I had one rear hub fail on me, luckily it was at 5 mph. The right rear wheel just fell off, lugs still attached to the outer part of the hub. I had mine rebuilt at TRF, and was pleased with the results. While you have the hubs out and if you're not sure when they were rebuilt last, I'd buy myself some piece of mind and have them redone.

Mark

 

[Alan_Myers]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

Hi,

Often the grease seals go bad before the bearings, usually ruining the brake shoes in the process. While it's apart for seals, might as well put in new bearings.

That's what I'm trying to do now. But, the hubs on my TR4 project have likely never been removed, so are quite solidly attached!

I'm using a massive hub puller, that attaches and operates similarly to the Churchill tool made for this purpose. I've added a heavy backup plate (made from an old wire wheel adapter) to try to avoid bending/ruining the hub.

But, it's still not been able to break the hub free from the axle. I've torqued the hub puller just about as far as I dare.

The rear of the car actually lifts now, when I apply more torque! It appears I'm close to snapping the 40" long, 1/2" drive breaker bar or the 1-1/8" socket, or even sheering off the heavy hooks on the hub puller!

Think I dare apply some gentle heat to the hub to encourage it to separate? Maybe with an LPG torch, just at the tapered area? The grease seals are shot, so ruining them with heat isn't a concern.

A fun job!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[Andy Blackley]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

Heres the link to the thread I mentioned above: https://www.tr-register.co.uk/cgi-bin/ib3...t=ST;f=7;t=5461
Food for thought.

 

[piman]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

Hello Alan,

whenever I have dismantled the hubs on my Triumph (IRS) model
I use a heavy duty screw puller and once I have it wound up tight I hit the screw hard with a heavy hammer (and I mean hard) and that usually does the trick. I'm not sure of the TR4 hub (The 4A would be like mine) but the hammer trick usually shocks off most 'unremovable' applications.

Alec

 

[Alan_Myers]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

Hi Alec,

Actually, I must admit I tapped the end of the hub remover a few times with a hammer. But not very hard. With the TR4 and other non-IRS TRs there is a real danger of damaging the differential, pounding hard on the end of the axle. I suppose if the axle/hub assemblies were completely removed from the car, I could get the ol' 8# sledge hammer out!

It may come to that. But, it's much easier to really torque on the hub remover with the axles/hubs still on the car.

BTW, I also used some penetrating oil on the axle and let it soak for a few days in advance. And, I put some "anti-sieze" on the end of the hub remover bolt and it's threads, to try to prevent it digging in.

Looks like my last resort will be heat, before yanking the hubs/axles out and taking them to a machine shop with a 20 ton press. I hope to avoid that. Sounds like about 50% of hubs treated that way end up bent and unusable.

Cheers!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[71tr]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

I have the hubs out of the car and tried my hand at seperating the unit with a three-pronged gear puller. The kind you crank down on with your biggest ratchet or wrench. This was a fruitless effort as I felt something was going to break or bend before anything came loose. I'm leaning towards a professional rebuild with a nearby firm, axelworks aka High Point Imports here in central NC. Last I checked they offered $165 per hub rebuild with a 12 month warranty.

 

[Alan_Myers]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

Hi again,

Yeah, a two or three-prong puller won't work and will likely destroy the hub before breaking it free from the axle.

I bought a very heavy duty hub puller with four legs (actually, it came with three, so I picked ordered two additional at the same time). It attaches at the lug studs, as did the original Churchill tool. Here's a link showing it: https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/ShopCart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_CAT268_pg3.htm

I actually bought elsewhere for a little less. The price seemed a bargain compared to the Churchill tool, if you can even find one.

But, it will only be "a bargain" if I can get it to do the job! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

Having the hubs for IRS cars rebuilt is certainly an option to consider. I'd want to be very certain whoever is doing the work is experienced and knowledgeable about Triumphs, to avoid possible problems such as the broken axle shown at the link above, or a bent hub.

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[Geo Hahn]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

After I pursued the 4-legged puller, Brian Sanborn had a puller in his online garage sale that I couldn't pass up. Will be trying it soon on my very stubborn TR4 hub.

Alan -- haven't tried this but have heard recently that a sharp rap using a pair of hammers on opposite sides is helpful (like you do for ball joints). Don't know if your puller lets you get at it well enough to ty this.

 

[Alan_Myers]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

Hi Geo,

Aha! So *you* bought Brian's Churchill puller! I was very tempted, but had just ordered the 4-leg puller and, besides, had spent too much on parts from Brian already!

Hey, he lowered the puller's price on my suggestion... if it works on your car, maybe you would rent it to me? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I can't imagine the 4-leg puller is much different from the Churchill tool, expecially after I reinforced it with some extra support for the hub. But, who knows!

I'm going to apply some heat now and see if that helps.

Let us know how the Churchill tool works.

Cheers!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[Geo Hahn]

Re: Rear Hub Rebuild [Stubborn hubs!]

I've actually had several owners offer to pull the hub apart for me if I just pay shipping each way... but I am determined to do it myself (or break something trying).

 

[Alan_Myers]

Hi again,

We started out discussing IRS hub rebuilds here. I sort of sidetracked it into discussion of solid axle hub woes. So, let me try to get it back on the original topic...

Since I'm not all that familiar with the later cars, I pulled out Roger William's "Restoring TR5/250/6" last evening and looked up the section on IRS hubs. There are quite a few differences between the non-IRS and IRS hubs, and different issues with each.

One key thing is that the solid axle, if it breaks, will not lose the wheel completely. The IRS wheel will come off completely if an axle sheers. So, as disastrous a broken axle might be, it's even more of a safety concern with the IRS cars.

Williams strongly recommends doing a service exchange from a good TR vendor, rather than trying to rebuild IRS hubs yourself or having someone unfamiliar with TRs working on them. Some special and expensive tools are necessary. Plus there are some strongly recommended procedures, such as crack-detecting the outer axles before reusing them.

Other important things to check are the mounting studs in the trailing arm. Apparently these were originally tapped with fine thread, and really should be coarse in aluminum. So, they are prone to stripping. Beyond just rethreading and swapping to studs that are NC on the end threaded into the trailing arm, installing helicoils or time-serts might be a good precaution.

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[71tr]

To see what can happen when a rear hub axle lets go check out this website.

https://www.tonydrews.com/Jack_Car_2.htm

 

[LastDeadLast]

[ QUOTE ]
To see what can happen when a rear hub axle lets go check out this website.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeesh! That's ugly.

BTW, I've heard that High Point Imports does good work.. Give me a shout if you come up this way.

 

[71tr]

Shannon,
Yes, I think I will go with High Point. I spoke with Scott there and pricing and service have not changed. They have pretty quick turn-around too, about three days. If I drive up there to drop these things off I'll coordinate with you so I can stop by.

 

[Guest]

I'm jumping in here because I need a rear hub too. TRF didn't have any built 10 days ago when I spoke to them. To be fair, I've been on vacation and so haven't called them since, but then it seems everything I try to order from TRF is backordered and so I'm a bit frustrated with them...

I did a web search for High Point and found this:

High Point Imports 336-884-1455 800 W Kivett Dr High Point NC 27262

Is this the place? If the price is still $165 each then it's almost a twofer vs TRF so I might as well send them both in and have them done.

As always, TIA, Alan

 

[LastDeadLast]

Alan,

Yep that's the same place. I've been to his place before, he's a full service shop. Nice fellow, if not a bit eccentric. But how many of us aren't??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[kindofblue]

The reason my TR250 was parked 14 years ago was it failed PA state inspection for rear wheel bearings. I pulled both rear hubs out as a complete assembly and brought them up to Triumph Rescue. https://www.triumphrescue.com/ He tested both of them right there for me on a mock up trailing arm. One had excessive play and required replacement. The other one was Ok for driving. He had a rebuilt and repainted one in stock for about $300. This seemed competitive with TRF who offeres them at about $290 plus shipping. This is with a core retun. It didn't bother me not to have the original ones for the car.

According to Roger Williams book on TR250/6 and TRF glovebox companion for 250/6, rear hub rebuilding is not to be undertaken if you do not have the correct tools and experiance. TRF says they are actually buying rear hubs because of supply issues. I would stress to anyone not to do this yourself unless you are very confident of what you are doing. I have worked on cars, and still coughed up to have this done professionally, and also my front calipers were rebuilt by Triumph Rescue.