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TR6 Starter not engaging into ring gear

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Gliderman8

Gliderman8

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Now I know why my starter is not working.... It's not engaging the ring gear. See pic below, it looks like it moved back about 1/2".
Any ideas how to move it back without removing tranny?
image.jpg
 
Geo Hahn

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Uh oh. I think the gearbox will be coming out and the flywheel coming off.

BTW - I never use the term 'tranny'. A Google search for a 'British Tranny' cured me of that. Interesting blokes though.
 
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Gliderman8

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Geo- OK I just looked up the word and I've been cured. I know the transmission will have to come out. Should I replace ring gear or try a brass drift and hammer to move it back into position?
 
Geo Hahn

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I have never had to deal with this - but I seem to recall some using a set of spot welds to secure the ring gear once it is seated in position. Other may have used some sort of mechanical attachment. Either way, you want to end up with a balanced flywheel.
 
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This is an issue that used to be engineered into avoidance.
Now, I'm going on general automotive design, as I've been into so many British cars for repairs, I cannot recall each specific anymore.
The old Bendix pull-in drive...used to be the designers did the ring gear to bottom out against the flywheel ridge when the drive pulled in.
Put a different type stater with push-out drive, it would walk the gear off the flywheel.
MAYBE spot welds would work in a light duty four banger.
We used to yank the flywheel, re-seat the ring gear, drill six spots equally spaced around the ring gear/flywheel parting line, parallel to the main bearing line bore, tap, bottom tap, then locktite in 1/4" set screws and they never moved again.

In your particular situation with access, plugs out, mark the flywheel to show where you started, vise grips, start moving it back in a bit, roll the engine a bit, do that, again...and keep going around until you have it back into place...then try to spot weld.
By the time you're done...on your back...you could have pulled it out and done it right.
 
Geo Hahn

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TOC said:
...By the time you're done...on your back...you could have pulled it out and done it right.
Click to expand...

Good news is that having the gearbox out will allow you to implement one of the many fixes for that tricky upper bolt. On other TRs some reverse the bolt so the nut is forward, some helicoil the case, some fit a sheet metal arc with bolts welded on, some fit a pin or such to prevent the bolt from turning. You'll want to find out what works best for a TR6.
 
poolboy

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That's good advice, George and so is making an access door in the tunnel if I may say so myself.
 
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DavidApp

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Is the TR6 flywheel different to the TR3?
The ring gear on my TR3 is bolted on to a flange on the flywheel.

David
 
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Gliderman8

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poolboy said:
TR6's and I believe the 250's ring gear is "shrunk on"
Click to expand...
Questions:
1. Do I use the ring gear I have, or buy a new one? My concern with a new one is quality (cheap supplier?)
2. Should I drill and tap to lock it in like David suggested?
3. Anyone else have this problem?
 
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They are ALL shrunk on. If they moved, either starter/drive had forced it off, or somebody, somewhere, replaced the ring gear by knocking it off. Bad idea. Peels some of the flywheel off, never stays put after that.
Drill between two teeth (two or three smaller holes), hit it with a cold chisel and break it.
I will say, I have seen a whole lot of flywheel ring gears welded over the decades and decades. I do believe every one I saw had failed welds.
Whatever you do that is not just a new ring gear should involve a balance of the flywheel afterwards.

A whole lot of experience is in old Fords, Flatheads, where some moron decided to use a pull-in Bendix, and the ring gear goes on from the front of the flywheel, so if there is any tendency to pull it off the front (and hit the block) it will. If they had put the ridge on the front and driven the ring gear from the back, never would have had a problem. Get the champher of the teeth on the right way when you do it, if it has a champher. Towards the drive teeth.
 
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DavidApp

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Looking at the photo of your ring gear it looks like it is slightly angled. The new starter is a pr-engaged type so the starter gear would be pushed into the ring gear before the starter turns. Could have pushed it out of line?

This is a poor photo if Scotch/Dutch keying. The pins are often set screws.
Driven_front_newhub_dutchpin.jpg
The TR3 Flywheel is a little different. The ring gear is bolted up against a flange.
20160527_084454.jpg

David
 
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Gliderman8

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David- I have no doubt that's exactly what happened. The starter gear moved the ring gear back from smacking into it.
I'm going to get the flywheel out and put a new ring gear on it; then balance and reinstall.
 
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Gliderman8

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OK, I've decided to pull the transmission and install a new ring gear.
It seems I'm not the only one who has experienced this problem on a TR6. A quick internet search turned up at least two others who've had the same thing happen.
All I have to do now is get it done and over with.
 
mgedit

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On my TR6 I had the ring gear come loose after engine and transmission rebuild. Took the flywheel and ring gear to local welding shop and had them tack it in place once reinstalled. Been like that for more than 10 years. Cheers, Mike
 
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Gliderman8

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Made progress today.... Out it comes tomorrow if I can round up a crazy person to help in this 90+ degree temperatures.
image.jpg
 
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Gliderman8

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All this work for a $24 part :mad-new: :censored:

image.jpg
 
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Gliderman8

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Finally got the flywheel off. Look how far the ring gear moved off of the shoulder. I'll be installing the a new ring gear sometime this week and then put it all back together (again!).

ring gear.jpg
 
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