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TR4/4A Starter dog bolt

bammons

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I ready to put my fan/hub on and cannot seem to find the torque setting for the "starter dog bolt" as the shop manual calls it. Anybody know what that would be? I am talking about the bolt that goes through the fan extension and pulley maybe 6" long. Bruce
 

CJD

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This is one of those torques that comes up every so often...with no real consensus. I would torque to at least 60, and from there turn it as required to align the locking plate. The real key is it has a locking plate to ensure it stays put, rather than depending on the normal bolt stretch to retain it. If you do not plan to use the locking plate, then the 100-120 Mad gives is probably right.
 

sp53

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I do not remember the locking plate perchance I need one. The way I do it is about 100lb. heck the bolt is huge. I actually thought before the Forum stuff came into the world with Moss Motors chasing them -----that at about 90lb to 100lb should do it---- and the motor spinning clockwise to keep it tight should help----I would be good.

steve
 

DavidApp

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If you use the starting handle to start the TR the first time it kicks back should get the last few ft/lbs.

David
 
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bammons

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I do have the locking plate so I will plan on 60lbs torque. I see the Moss catalog shows shims which I assume is to insure the bolt head protrudes thru the lock plate? Mine does not have shims. I haven't put it together so that is something I need to check. Mine did not have a balance piece either so not sure how to determine it needs one unless I take it to a machine shop? I'll see how it does as is I think. Thanks guys for your answers. Bruce
 

DavidApp

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Hello Bruce

The shims are to set the dog faces to the correct angle so that the starting handle is at the correct angle at compression. The handbook gives the correct angle.

David
 

sp53

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Oh now I see the locking plate John mentioned. I have one on my car just did think it would do much locking, but yes now I think it does. I also have the balance piece, but left that off. My balance piece has a punch or hole mark and I think there was a hole or something or dent in the collar to fit it correct. Geo did some balancing once IIRC. One thing to watch for is that the belt pulley is installed correct to the woodruff key to the other half of the pulley with the timing marks of the engine at TDC compression or you will not be able to time it with timing light.
steve
 

CJD

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Yeah, just to elaborate...I would consider 60ft-lbs to be the minimum I would use to hold everything tight. Then you can continue to turn until the starter slot lines up at the 10:30 / 4:30 angle shown in the manual, like David says. If this will take more than about 100ftlbs, then take it back apart and add shims and try it again, until you get the 60-100ftlbs AND the lock plate can be aligned. So a lot has to come together.

Of course, if you don't plan to ever use the start handle, just torque to 60, then add whatever it takes to align the lock plate. If you don't use a lock plate, then 100ftlbs would be about right for a final. The original balance tabs were stamped with a chisel at the factory to mark how they were assembled. My cars were never marked, as I am sure the original balance pieces were long gone. Fearing adding them without actually balancing the fan would cause more harm than good, I have always just left them off...or I think I may have used 2 opposed to each other to prevent changing anything.

Remember, all the above is just opinions. There are several threads about this, and I don't think anyone came up with an "official" rule for torqueing the big bolt...just a lot of educated guesses combined!?! If you have a good reason to do something else, you are just as correct as I am.
 
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bammons

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OK I thought I understood what you were saying but I am now confused about "aligning" the lock plate. I first thought simply use the slots to get it where the bolts go in which is what I did. But now you are talking about torqueing to get slots lined up at much higher torque. My car does not have any starter ears on the bolt and I would have to go out to the shed to look but I don't think my radiator has a starter hole in it. So I am missing something here? Bruce
 

DavidApp

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Hello Bruce

You must have a replacement radiator as the factory ones had a hole for the handle to pass through. The bolt with the dogs may have been replaced at the same time.

Was at a show last Saturday and did a hand crank start for someone. They said they had never seen it done before.

David
 
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bammons

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According to a book ( I had to look at to make sure) the TR4A did not have the starter handle or apparently the "ears" you guys have been talking about. No surprise I guess they still left the hole in the grill which if I am not mistaken is different than the TR4 (So why the hole?). So based on later posts in this thread I will up the torque to say 70-75ft lbs, use the locking plate and I should be good is that correct? There is nothing more for me to line up other than the locking plate right? Bruce
 

Geo Hahn

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...No surprise I guess they still left the hole in the grill which if I am not mistaken is different than the TR4 (So why the hole?)...

I suspect they persisted with a hole because the pressing for the valence didn't change and forms the lower half of the opening.
 

CJD

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According to a book ( I had to look at to make sure) the TR4A did not have the starter handle or apparently the "ears" you guys have been talking about. No surprise I guess they still left the hole in the grill which if I am not mistaken is different than the TR4 (So why the hole?). So based on later posts in this thread I will up the torque to say 70-75ft lbs, use the locking plate and I should be good is that correct? There is nothing more for me to line up other than the locking plate right? Bruce

Like I said, we have often discussed this, but no real consensus. I think you will be fine going with 70-75 and the locking plate.
 

LionelJrudd

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The Triumph Service Manual for TR2 with TR3 supplement lists the front hub to crankshaft bolt as five eights UNF torqued to 140 ft lbs.
Publication part number - 502602. Ref page 13, bottom row of data table.
best regards,
Lionel
 
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