TR6 TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing[Pics]

[Brosky]

Hopefully, this will be the last clutch R&R for many years to come. The pages have pics and are self explanatory as to why it (the Gunst) is being removed and what happened along the way. Thanks to Erik at Her Majesty's Service for his patience and expertise.

https://www.74tr6.com/clutchreplacement.htm

 

[brdave]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing & why

Thank you for the information regarding your clutch replacement. I am planning to replace the clutch on my 76 TR6 this winter. There are alot of opinions on the net regarding the troublesome TR clutch. I will have to make a decision as to which parts or combination to use. I appreciate information based on experience. Please keep us updated on the TRF magic clutch kit which you are now installing.

Dave

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

The differential is out and being resealed as I type this, but I hope to have it back tomorrow. I'll post as soon as I get a chance to drive it home.

 

[tomshobby]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Great information Paul!

I know you have been having trouble with the old setup and hope this makes the difference. Too bad the cost of education has been so high.

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Tom, this has become a mission for making sure that no owner that I can get to, via this forum or another, has to go through the same aggravation and expense that I have.

Dave at TRF has been great, but they are in the same boat as me. They are led to believe that the product will work with every pressure plate on the market, but I can prove that it obviously doesn't.

At the very least, anyone considering the product has been warned and if this isn't proof enough, I wish them luck.

 

[71tr]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

So Paul, is the bottom line don't use the gunst T/O bearing with a Borg & Beck pressure plate? What about gunst paired with LUK or Sachs pressure plate?

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Bottom line, at least to me, after 3 Gunst failures is not to use the Gunst at all. I say "failures" as a term used to describe a less than satisfactory installation experience on a very labor intensive project. Mr. Gunst personally told me via email that he only recommends using the LUK P/P with his bearing. Of course this was after I complained of the same issue three times and he assured me that there was nothing wrong with his parts and that it was just me. I guess all of that wear in 800 miles is my fault. Not once, but several times.

I guess that this is worth taking a chance on if you have nothing better to do than R&R transmissions for the next week or so.

 

[Tinster]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Many thanks for heads up and great how-to photos.
As soon as my crypt car rises from the dead I
must immediately replace the clutch. I was considering
the Gunst assembly. No longer.

Dale

 

[brdave]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

I have found another site with some valuable information regarding clutches. FYI

www.mntriumphs.org

then to their tech page, then a great article on clutches.

Dave

 

[LastDeadLast]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

I know Paul has had problems, but I've been running the LUK clutch and the Gunst bearing for a year now with absolutely no issues. The very reason that I used the LUK clutch was because TRF's description in their catalog said that Gunst recommended it.

I'm not saying that the Gunst is the best, but I've heard first hand stories of the B&B clutch failing in less than a mile. In addition, the 6-pack email list is littered with aftermarket T/O bearing failures of various brands.

With anything, do your research and talk to many different sources before making a decision like this. It's not wise to form an opinion on one failure.

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Again, as I said earlier, the LUK is what seems to be the one unit that works together with the Gunst with no problem, but the TRF catalog did say at the time that it would work with the B&B unit just as well. I have no beef with them, because they didn't know. Stuff happens.

I hope to have it back by the weekend with a positive report about the TRF Magic Clutch Kit. Time will tell!

Shannon is one of the lucky ones, I wasn't. That's life and I've already moved on to the differential overhaul and read suspension rebuild. Pictures are here of diff repairs: https://www.74tr6.com/differential.htm

More to follow later on.

Besides, it gave me a great opportunity to replace the carpeting and stereo with a good CD player, so all is not lost.

 

[Tosh]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Hey, re: that clutch?? enough already. Can't imagine removing that transmission 3 times.
Been using a Magic Clutch for 3+ years with no problems. It is stiff but it works. Am always apprehensive, however, on account of all the horror stories regarding clutch longivity in our LBC's that begin with the letters TR.

May you never turn another bolt on that bell housing.

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Tosh, you replied positively when I asked about different clutch setups a few months ago, which is one of the reasons that I went with the Magic kit. Also, I liked the color of your body paint, bumpers and wheels, so that made the decision to change a no brainer.

 

[Tosh]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Thanks for the complement.
Glad to be of assistance.
BTW/FYI;
That lovely platinum metallic TR broke a valve spring about a month ago and the valve became an interference fit between the piston and the head. Havent looked inside yet. The engine was idling when it seized.

Best...

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Tis a far better thing, that is, to interference fit an internal engine component at idle, than at redline, my son!

 

[Tosh]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Amen.

 

[brucebotti]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

I ran into the exact same situation. I was installing the TRF Magic/Gunst in my buddy's TVR (TR-6 drivetrain).

Fortunately (though I didn't think so at the time), UPS delivered the Magic Clutch/Gunst on my front step at night and it then rain/sleet/snowed. When I saw it in the morning, the box was frozen to the step and everything was drenched. As it thawed the pressure plate started to rust. I spoke with TRF and they immediately sent me out a new clutch and pressure plate (everything else was fine).

When I got the new pressure plate, I noticed that it had different fingers than the original. The original looked like the one that Brosky had the problems with, and had stepped fingers. The new one had flat fingers like the "good" one that Brosky used. When I lied them flat, one set of fingers was taller than the other. Unfortunately, they both had the same LUK part #. I was told that LUK bought out a bunch of maufacturers and used the same part # from different mfg'ers for the same application. I decided to install them both and check the height of the fingers once the pressure plate was torqued down. Once clamped, I checked the Gunst by pressing it against the fingers and seeing if I could turn it. On the one with the stepped fingers, I noticed that the fingers made contact with the inner non-movable collar part of the Gunst. This would certainly cause a loud squeal. As the clutch is depressed, I would imagine that the contact point would shift to the proper part of the Gunst and the noise would subside. I checked the other pressure plate with the flat fingers, and the contact point was squarely in the center of the Gunst, where it should be. Fortunately, the correct plate was the new one. I was still nervous and expected the worst. Luckily, the TRF Magic/Gunst works great after 7 moths and a few thousand miles.

If it hadn't been for a lazy UPS driver, I would still be pulling my hair out. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Sorry for being so long winded!

Bruce

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Bruce, believe it or not, we checked the first Borg & Beck pressure plate against the original Gunst bearing for the same problem and it did not happen as yours did. As a matter of fact, it was a feature article form the BMCNE in the British Marque back in the spring.

The club needed a good project car for a tech session so I had just had the first clutch removed and brought it along because I still had the squeal. I still have the pressure plate and disc with less than 200 miles on them. The fingers do not hit inside as yours did, but rather the bearing simply doesn't turn with the pressure plate as it was designed to do. Even with a double spring pulling it against the plate.

I believe that the fingers being bent ever so slightly from the LUK design, do not have the sufficient surface area to turn the bearing properly. These bearings don't spin as freely as a stock bearing does. Even the HD Toyota bearing that is in the TRF Magic Kit spins more freely with no miles on it than the Gunst that we took out.

The problem is definitely in the design of the fingers and possibly the amount of them, all relating back to surface area against the Gunst. At least that's what I believe to be the case.

I hope to be posting a happy post tomorrow after I meet Erik at noon and pick it up. Providing it isn't pouring again!

 

[Brosky]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

I am very happy to report that I now have a quiet clutch. The TRF Magic Clutch Kit works perfectly and is exactly what I hoped it would be.

Erik and I test drove the car together and it is just fine. The new rear springs brought the rear end up about 3 inches and the shocks made for a much smoother ride over bumps. The squat and negative camber is now gone in the rear as well.

I just washed it and put in the garage ready to be waxed prior to going to the British Legends weekend at The Cape in two weeks.

 

[tomshobby]

Re: TR6 Clutch R&R, or goodbye Gunst T/O bearing &

Paul,

It is great to hear your clutch problem is finally solved. you have put a lot of TLC into your car and now you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.