TR6 Borg & Beck or LUK clutch kit for the '74 TR6

[tdskip]

Her clutch works fine, a bit of a low engagement, but no slipping etc. But, the current 4 speed gearbox coming out to be replaced with a J-type OD so now seems to the time to put a new clutch kit in as well.

Any strong feelings on Moss' 593-030 Borg & Beck vs 593-040 LUK? TRF or BPNorthwest instead?

It seems the BPNorthwest Clutch Kit SACH 4-pc KOYO is pretty well regarded....

One interesting note - the gearbox only has 4 bolts holding it the engine so someone has been in here before, and wasn't too focused on the details....

Thanks!

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

I have the Sachs and Koyo in mine Skip and have had no issues....Might want to go with that bronze throw bearing sleeve though...

Cheers,
Tush

 

[TR3driver]

No comment on the best clutch, except that personally I would stay away from the "improved" versions as they seem to cause more problems than they solve.

But I wanted to point out that there are supposed to be two special "dowel" bolts with precision shanks that serve to locate the gearbox relative to the engine. Using ordinary bolts in these locations may lead to problems down the road, as standard bolts have undersize shanks that allow the gearbox to be out of true with the crankshaft.

Hopefully they are available for the TR6. I could not find them for the Stag, and had to manufacture my own (from precision "drill rod", threaded for nuts on both ends).

You might also want to read through a couple of articles:
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/ReliableClutch/ReliableClutch.htm
https://www.mntriumphs.org/Tech_Info/Clutch%20Folder/clutch.pdf

 

[tdskip]

Thanks Tush.

Hey - how is the TR3a coming along?

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

The dowels are available.

Slowly Skip, Slowly....been too busy driving the 6 so it's not all bad!

Cheers,
Tush

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

Dowel pin locations pic

Cheers,
Tush

 

[mallard]

I can't recommend witch cluch set up to use because mine is about 8 years old. I did get the parts from TRF and did use the Koyo bearing. No problems at all. Make sure you have the dowel pins in place in the flywheel also. As for the dowel bolts I was able to find something at the local hardware store. I think the shank is 3/8" but I'm not sure. They need to have a close fit in the bellhousing.

 

[Brosky]

My advice is to stay away from B&B and go with the Sachs and Koyo, with the Bronze sleeve and the anti-rotation pins installed. Dowels are a given and stay as far away from the Gunst as you can, especially if you are still thinking about a B&B.

Gunst Nightmare

 

[TR3driver]

FWIW, I'm using an original TR6-style B&B pressure plate, Laycock friction plate & RHP bearing on my TR3 (with the TR6 gearbox). It's only got maybe 50,000 miles on it so far, but was in such perfect condition that I didn't replace anything when I moved it from the wrecked TR3A to the current TR3.

And I'm not particularly gentle on clutches. In fact, one of my biggest issues just now is that I have a tendency to spin the inside rear wheel when turning from a stop, which is apt to draw unwanted attention from the local gendarmes if I don't find a solution. My plan is to install 3.45 gears instead of the 4.10 that came with the car ... plus the LSD I've got on order.

 

[Brosky]

Randall,

You do not have the Gunst and I think that you bought yours well before the quality issues that exist know had arisen. B&B used to be make good clutches, but the quality has gone down hill in the past two years as attested here and on the 6-Pack Forum.

 

[TR3driver]

You do not have the Gunst and I think that you bought yours well before the quality issues that exist know had arisen. B&B used to be make good clutches, but the quality has gone down hill in the past two years as attested here and on the 6-Pack Forum.

Actually, the fuss over B&B clutches has been going on for much longer than 2 years; probably even longer than BCF has been in existence. For example, TRF came up with their "magic clutch" kit in 1995, due to pervasive problems with TR6 clutches. And the two articles I linked to above were originally written around 2000, after it became apparent that most of the "solutions" only caused more problems.

The important point, IMO, is in Brent's article (2001 update); to wit that most vendors are selling the WRONG CLUTCH. If you get the right B&B clutch (which I was careful to do), it works sweet.

 

[tdskip]

Hi guys - after a lot of research and coaching I ended up ordering the BPNorthwest Clutch Kit SACH 4-pc KOYO.

I also found a McMaster Carr reference for the locating dowels;

1 Pack 98381A624 Alloy Steel Dowel Pin 3/8" Diameter, 1" Length, Packs of 25

 

[TR3driver]

Just to be clear, the original TR6 part was actually a "dowel bolt". Precision ground shank like a dowel, but with a head and threads for a nut, so it would also help clamp the bellhousing to the rear plate. Probably not essential, but I'm pretty sure the factory used them to help make the engine/transmission joint stronger. Earlier cars just used dowels (which are readily available from the usual suspects).

 

[Brosky]

OK, so just to curb my curiosity, what is the "right clutch" for the TR6 from B&B?

 

[TR3driver]

OK, so just to curb my curiosity, what is the "right clutch" for the TR6 from B&B?

Well, for one thing, it doesn't have the "cranked" fingers! You can see some photos of it on about page 7 of the article at
https://www.mntriumphs.org/Tech_Info/Clutch%20Folder/clutch.pdf

 

[Opa]

I think Paul I would ask what clutch set-up tr6 owners are running and how many miles it's done. This tr6 clutch stuff has been going on for many years.I installed a B+B in 1990 that didn't go 2500 miles.Course back then I didn't know about the dowel pins an all that either. Second unit was in a Quentin Hazel box and I don't remember the brand stamp on either the disc or cover but assume it was B+B however not sure.This second unit went 3300 miles and started to rattle.Upon dissassembly I found the springs broken in the friction disc. This is also when I noticed excessive wear and a funny wear pattern on presure plate fingers(diaphram).Didn't really register in the grey matter at that time. Just pee'd me off some more.
Then I scored a very original 76 low mileage car that had been written off in a crash. I bought it for the O.D tranny. When I pulled the gearbox, I noticed immediatly the two 3/8's bolts which we all know now were used to line up the box and engine.
This would be around 1995 and the B+B controversy was getting around pretty good by this time.This was also about the time that RHP throw-out bearings were being sold sans lube.Yup I put one of those in,screamed like a banshee in about 200 miles Any way to cut a long story shorter I somehow got in touch with Nelson Reidel and when you read his reliable clutch bulletin you will see my name in there with some of the info we shared at that time. That was in March of 2002.
I installed a Luk,Saches unit about that time with an RHP bearing, which now has over 50,000 miles on it.No problems yet(knock on wood)Just gotta tap me head for that one.Wooden head, wooden shoes, wooden listen. Being a Windmiller I've heard em all LOL!!

 

[TR3driver]

I somehow got in touch with Nelson Reidel and when you read his reliable clutch bulletin

Which, BTW, is the first link I gave above. Nelson has subsequently moved on to other hobbies, and asked that his name be removed from the article; but otherwise it is the same article.

 

[Brosky]

I can see where you are both coming from. When I did my clutch and had all of the issues, no one mentioned this article to me. In any event, mine was resolved with the Sachs kit and the Koyo bearing. I'm happy now, so that's all that matters to me.

 

[hondo402000]

anyone use Goodparts AP drive line clutches? I plan on replacing mine in the fall when the motor is out

Hondo

 

[Steve1970]

I've got the Goodparts AP driveline; if I'm not mistaken the clutch is a repro of the B&B. I installed it two yrs ago (with some custom modification) and have since put on about 1000 mi, no issues yet. I was careful to use the dowels that the others have mentioned.

My shifting problem was not so much the clutch as the clutch shaft fork pin, which had twisted to the point that it allowed the fork too much free play. I remember reading the Laycock article that the guys have posted above, and I reasoned that it was the high amount of force required to disengage the B&B clutch that probably caused the fork pin to fail.

It seemed that everyone had some kind of problem with every tr6 clutch kit available at that time (2 yrs ago). So I reasoned that I would stay with the B&B kit (or AP driveline's B&B repro) but reinforce the clutch fork to the shaft with an additional bolt, a modification that has been done by at least several on this board.

As I said, no issues so far, and I'm not one who lets up lightly on the clutch :wink: