Correct wheels, studs and lug nuts?

[F1LOCO]

So I finally had a chance to get under the car to grease up the front end and hopefully solve some of the noise. When I removed the wheels, I discovered the lug bolts had been replaced with non-OE correct ones, literally with the hexagon heads JBWELDED into place, and the nuts had additional concentric spacers to presumably fill the void from incorrect nuts and lugs. Oh yea, and there is a spacer behind the wheel rim? Is this normal, as the car was supposed to have "period restored minilites." What size lug bolts do I need and what size lug nuts should I be using to keep them firmly to the hub. Don't want to drive it much until I get this nightmare sorted.

I also tried to ID the wheels but couldn't find any cast stampings in them at all? Does this sound correct for '60 Minilites?

 

[TR3driver]

Nope, none of that sounds 'right'. The original Minilites mounted directly onto the stock 7/16-20 studs, with special lug nuts that came with the wheels.

I don't know that they would have what you need, but I was able to find lug nuts for me old AR alloy wheels at Summit: https://goo.gl/yVk1g

 

[F1LOCO]

Thanks. I think they were rigged for the car which isn't real reassuring. Thinking about just buying the correct studs, wire wheel adapters and going from there.

 

[70herald]

It would be helpful if you posted a picture of the lug bolts which were JB welded in place. but it sounds like normal bolts were glued in instead of the proper pull in bolts?

There seems to be two issues which need to be checked.
1. is there damage to the hubs as a result of this bodge? you will have to take the glued in bolts to find out.
2. Why were the spacers needed? Is it trying to center the wheel or are the needed to correct the wheel offset (it looks like those minilites might hit the brakes without the spacers???

I would guess that previous owner may have gotten those wheels and then discovered that they interfere somewhere, so they added spacers, but then the normal lugs weren't long enough so they incompetently used longer bolts from the hardware store.

If this is the reason for the spacers then what you need is to get proper studs of the correct length and you are ready to go.

Just one more thought, CHECK THE HUBS to make sure that whoever did this didn't damage them.

Finally DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR WITH UNACCEPTABLE STUDS! THIS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Those wheels are American Racing Silverstones, GC360 actually makes a new modern version of this wheel, the Silverstone II, I'm a dealer for the new Silverstone IIs.

 

[F1LOCO]

Nice. Finally an ID.

I did find a stamp in the rear wheel in the back INAS, 15x6, 1x2

So, what the heck do I need stud wise, nut wise to make these fit or are they incorrect for my TR4? Are these vintage or newbies?

 

[F1LOCO]

UPDATE - took the rear offs and found a stamp in the rear rim INAS 15x6 1x2...

Here is what I found hub/bolt wise in the rear:

Is this correct for the rear, or shortcuts once again??

At least we may have found out the correct rims - Now to figure out what bolts/nuts to get...and of course hope no damage to the hubs...

 

[F1LOCO]

OK, from what I've found, I need 16 correct original studs, and now need to figure out correct nut/washer sizing for these babies and I can move onto the bigger things, like the front suspension...any guidance much appreciated.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Interesting -- looks like a bolt threaded through from behind on that rear hub -- the originals thread in from the outside and are swaged/peened on the backside to secure them.

Those bolts look longer than the original studs so you will need to work out just what length studs you need there for the wheels, spacers (if any) and clearance.

 

[F1LOCO]

No spacers on the rear, only on the fronts...

Didn't know if I can get away with stock bolts on front with the 1/4" spacer? Looks like a tight fit on the upper ball joint, so probably the reason for the 1/4" up front.

 

[F1LOCO]

Hap - just for giggles, what would new rims run with proper offsets that would work with stock OEM bolts/studs? From looking at another '64 I found on the net, and gauging by the width of the lip, I'd say mine are not made for the TR4 and the reason for the 1/4" spacer up front?

 

[BobbyD]

No spacers on the rear, only on the fronts...

Didn't know if I can get away with stock bolts on front with the 1/4" spacer? Looks like a tight fit on the upper ball joint, so probably the reason for the 1/4" up front.

I had to use spacers on the front with my Moss "Mini-Lites" as the upper control arm would hit the rim lip at full lock under certain conditions. But not needed with my new VTO LeMans wheels. If you end up needing a spacer on the front, there are minimal acceptable stud threads that need to be engaged. I had no problem meeting that spec with the stock TR6 front studs. A quick Google found this:

C<span style="font-style: italic">heck the lug nut thread engagement. Every stud must be long enough to thread into the lug nut a legnth at least equal to the stud diameter. For example, a 1/2" thread diameter must thread into the lug nut at least 1/2". </span>

 

[F1LOCO]

So you used TR6 front studs in the TR4??

 

[TR4nut]

Front studs on the 6 and the 4 are the same. Rears are very different though - the 4 studs thread in.

 

[F1LOCO]

The rears look like the pic above then? They may actually be correct?

 

[JerryVV]

Man, you have a mess on your hands, those rear studs, bolts whatever they are may not even be the correct material for wheel studs. They look like hardware store bolts and who ever did that may have ruined the flanges such that you can't install the correct parts.

My experience with the old mini-lites was that they required a special wheel nut that centered in a hole in the wheel. They did not have a taper like the newer wheel nut have now or like standard solid wheels require.

If I were you I'd get some good used front hubs and some good used rear axles and start over with known good OE parts. Sorry for the bad news but glad you caught it before you had a real failure and got hurt or hurt someone else.

 

[Geo Hahn]

The rears look like the pic above then? They may actually be correct?

Alas, no. Whatever they are, they are not correct.

The correct rear studs have shoulders and are peened on the backside.

As for the photos you post -- there seem to be some extra holes. Could #1 be a hole for the original stud (are there 3 more like it?). Could #2 & 3 be the original screw-hole and its replacement (are there 2 more like them?).

If so that might be good since if the PO drilled and tapped new holes for his 'fix' you may still have the original holes to work with.

 

[F1LOCO]

HOLD THE PRESS...someone knowledgeable said I don't have American Racing Silverstone's. Apparently the finish is too smooth and the holes are beveled, and not flat. Back to the salt mines....

 

[F1LOCO]

3 you see is actually the small screw locking the drum in place. But yes, there are 4 other holes offset from the existing screws.

I think I read, though, to replace the studs is PITA on the rear? It only gets better.

Thought about converting back to OEM wire wheels, but I hear that is not fail safe either.

The rears look like the pic above then? They may actually be correct?

Alas, no. Whatever they are, they are not correct.

The correct rear studs have shoulders and are peened on the backside.

As for the photos you post -- there seem to be some extra holes. Could #1 be a hole for the original stud (are there 3 more like it?). Could #2 & 3 be the original screw-hole and its replacement (are there 2 more like them?).

If so that might be good since if the PO drilled and tapped new holes for his 'fix' you may still have the original holes to work with.

 

[3798j]

To me, they look like EMPI 8 spokes. Just not the correct ones for a TR.