TR2/3/3A TR3 radiator

[NickMorgan]

Hi,
I am just about to brave the cold and damp to go out and remove the radiator from my TR3 so that I can have the filler neck soldered where it is leaking. Has anyone managed to take the radiator out without taking the front panel off?
Thanks for any tips.
Nick

 

[Don Elliott]

Yes Nick. Are you planning to do this in the outdoors up there in Scotland ? Chris Walker of Windsor, Ontario did it on his TR3A before he restored it in 1991. He also wrote a long report how he did it. I didn't read it, but he told me the last paragraph read "Don't do it". It seems it took him and a friend about three times as long to get it out compared to removing the front valance.

 

[NickMorgan]

Thanks Don,
I figured that I would have to remove the water pump and fan extension and would then have difficulty reaching all the bolts and clamps. It is good to know that taking off the front is the right way to do it. At least I won't be wondering if I should be doing it differently.
I will be doing it in my timber garage. Unfortunately it is rather too well ventilated!

 

[Harry_Ward]

Nick,

Definitely take the apron off as Don suggests!
You will also need a off-set wrench to actually get one of the radiator bolts out from underneath on one side. Of course I can't remember which side but I think it's a 5/8ths wrench.

 

[martx-5]

The front apron is actually straight forward in it's removal. The big problem occurs if it hasn't been taken off for the last forty years.

The screws holding the apron on will definetly be rusted badly. When you try to turn them, the captured square nuts will turn inside their cages, and then the screw will have to be cut. I'd suggest using liberal amounts of the best penetrating fluid you can find. Over here we have stuff called PB Blaster and Kroil. WD-40 is not up to the job. Don't know what's available over there. Also, several days worth of penetration with lots of re-sprays seems to help considerably.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[Don Elliott]

From what Chris told me, he had to remove the horns, thermostat housing, valve cover and (I think) also the generator, fan belt, water pump and pulley . . . .

By the way, when you get it repaired, use the tip as per the attachment to make it easier to put it back in and tighten the lower rad bolts. It'll make it easier to remove next time as well. All you need to do is make a cross slot in the end of each bolt with a hack saw and use a screwdriver to rotate the bolt upwards from the top, then tighten it from below with a key.

 

[mrv8q]

In reply to Harry's post, may I suggest it's a 9/16. What I found useful here is a small Craftsman 1/4 drive socket wrench, w/ the aforementioned socket. It's the only thing I found to fit to get it out easier. Except for the potentially rusted nuts, it's not too awful an affair. I also found stubby-sized gearwrenches helpful to get to those nuts under the fender. Best of Luck!

 

[Geo Hahn]

[ QUOTE ]
...so that I can have the filler neck soldered where it is leaking...

[/ QUOTE ]

That is, of course, the best way to repair a leak in that vulnerable spot. On the other hand... I repaired a hairline crack in mine along the lower edge where the neck joins the radiator tank using epoxy.

I cleaned the area well... lowered the coolant level below the joint... got the engine/coolant hot... then applied the epoxy. My hope was that as the engine cooled the vacuum (radiator cap was still on) would draw the epoxy into the crack for a better seal.

That was about 10 years ago and it has held to this day.

Mind you, this was a small crack that I was only aware of because of the crud left by slightly leaking coolant. I could catch it leaking by wiping a paper towel along that joint under the neck. If yours is a much larger leak then you probably have no choice but to pull it.

BTW -- I too have heard of someone who got the radiator out thru te topside but they had the head off in addition to the fan and other obvious bits. About the only way I would try that would be on a car where the wings were welded on.

 

[Don Elliott]

I saw a photo of a TR3A where the owner and the rad shop took the radiator out by cutting an opening about 15 by 20 inches in the sloped part of the front valance above the rad. When they finished, they cut a piece of galvanized sheetmetal ducting and pop riveted it onto the valance to cover the cut-out.

 

[Geo Hahn]

I hope that was in a state that still had capital punishment.

 

[habaneronut]

Well, Nick, Art is correct in that it is a pretty straight forward process. I, as a complete neophyte attempted this as my first job on my new car. I was lucky in that mine is a relatively recent restoration so no rusty bolts, but let me warn you, there are a lot more of them than the manual says. Maybe mine were added by PO's, I don't know, but whereas the manual had about 18, I ended up taking out over thirty before the dang thing finally came off. And it is definitely a two man job finally taking the apron off and then putting it back on.

One more caution. DON'T, I repeat DON'T, drive the car with the apron off (the bonnet safety catch is on the apron, after all). I'll leave the unfortunate results if you do this to your imagination.

Fred

 

[NickMorgan]

Thank you everyone for your replies and advice. I have just come in from taking the radiator out. Strangely the only rusted bolts were the two on the top brackets of the radiator. All of that under-seal and waxoyl has paid off under the wings. No problems getting the bolts undone once I had scraped the under-seal away. I managed to get the front panel off without loosening the wings from the inner wings (didn’t want to break the under-seal there). Managed to put a deep scratch in the front panel as I didn’t notice the wing beading tab rubbing against it as I struggled to pull the apron off. Then I remembered the bolt under the starter handle bracket! So, all in bits now and waiting for me to find a shop to repair the radiator. Took me about three and a half hours – I take back all I said about work being easy on a TR! I suppose it is not complicated, just time-consuming.
It’s a good job that you do have to take the front apron off as I notice that the fan belt doesn’t have much longer to live! I think I will also spend some time over the winter tidying up various items under the bonnet now that I can see the state of them.

 

[mrv8q]

Yep, now's a good time to inspect your engine mounts, water pump, and streering box top seal, if you're so inclined. Perhaps heat isn't a factor where you are, but one of those multi-bladed yellow fans might be in order, if so...
can't think of anything else... otherwise, she looks pretty good!

 

[startech47]

Time to add a coolant recovery tank and change to a compatible radiator cap. One more leak gone from the garage floor. I used a MG expansion tank to keep the period look. THe radiator neck is 1" deep instead of the later 3/4" deep neck. NAPA has the correct cap. Phil

 

[NickMorgan]

I still haven't got around to finding a shop to repair the radiator. Having removed the front panel I stood it on the workbench. The next morning my 6 year old daughter opened her bedroom curtains and shouted out that someone had been in the garage and turned the TR on its side!

 

[martx-5]

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[Lou Metelko]

Two important things to tell the shop when you take that TR3A radiator in: (1) The neck is not a handy carrying handle (2) The factory stock pressure is 4 PSI

Lou Metelko
Auburn, indiana

 

[Jim Lee]

Avoid my smoking wire crisis by being extra, extra careful when you reconnect the electrical wires you have disconnected.
If you have not marked them well make sure you reference a schematic or do a search on this forum to avoid any problems on the reconnection. It can range from directionals not working correctly to polarity thinking it is opposite day and in my case I did not realize it until I started up the car and thought "wow, that is alot of blow by....".

I was pleasantly surprised at how straight forward, though not necessarily easy, it was to remove the front apron. It was replacing it that had me creating new words in anger. You are at the mercy of the aforementioned captive bolts and
getting the pointy screws back in which for a few of mine I finally could stand no more, like Jacques Cousteau, and gave
up. Someday I will am going to enlarge the bolt hole openings and inside the fender and see if I can get the four
missing bolts back in there. I cannot say that I have driven it much since reattachment but I do believe there are
enough bolts beyond those four, as you mentioned, that the front apron is not going anywhere and I did not notice any terrible rattling.

I second the reminder about resisting the temptation to drive it while the apron is off. I did and before I got to the end of my street I had to save the day I had almost ruined by raising my arm to keep the hood from busting the hinges and doing who knows what to my empty head. Luckily I
got it, and slowed down, before any permanent damage was done to me or the car. A thrill I intend to avoid next time I remove the apron. I had built up a false sense of security because I had been riding around with it open up front depending on the 'Dzus(sp?)' fasteners...until I unconsciously did my 'Save the Dzus fasteners' thing and did
not fasten them. It only takes once.

It was pretty fun to see the 'front end' off the car. I did not think of putting it vertical next to a window. I will definitely do that next time to entertain the missus. "Someone must have snuck into the garage and.....Oh my God!...call the Sheriff....they must have been trying to fit it through the door"

Jim Lee

 

[Mickey Richaud]

[ QUOTE ]
I still haven't got around to finding a shop to repair the radiator. Having removed the front panel I stood it on the workbench. The next morning my 6 year old daughter opened her bedroom curtains and shouted out that someone had been in the garage and turned the TR on its side!

[/ QUOTE ]

Great picture, Nick! And you and your daughter will enjoy telling that story for a long time.

Mickey

 

[habaneronut]

Jim Lee said

"I second the reminder about resisting the temptation to drive it while the apron is off. I did and before I got to the end of my street I had to save the day I had almost ruined by raising my arm to keep the hood from busting the hinges and doing who knows what to my empty head. Luckily I
got it, and slowed down, before any permanent damage was done to me or the car. A thrill I intend to avoid next time I remove the apron. I had built up a false sense of security because I had been riding around with it open up front depending on the 'Dzus(sp?)' fasteners...until I unconsciously did my 'Save the Dzus fasteners' thing and did
not fasten them. It only takes once."

It only takes once is right!! I love hearing tht I'm not the only real dummy that this has happened to. Little more damage on my end though. Like a busted windshield and little pock marks on the bonnet where it hit the hood fasteners on the way over the top.

Fred