TR2/3/3A TR3 Steering Wander

[CJD]

The weather here finally broke, so got to take the TR out for its first substantial road trip. Runs great! Just had a quick question, since I have no experience with a "running" car!

Is drifting a normal TR3 thing with the stock steering box? It tends to follow any irregularities in the road surface when travelling straight. Not bad, but not the rock steady feeling we are used to with modern cars. On curves it doesn't wander at all.

Since there is no castor in the suspension, I would guess this is just something to expect...right? Or am I missing an adjustment (like, say, a rack and pinion conversion!?!)

Thanks,

John

 

[TR4nut]

Well I'm not experienced yet with how a 3A drives long term, but with the 0 degrees castor you aren't going to have centering tendencies. Not sure if that is your main issue, I guess some wear and tear in the steering box could make handling a little vague as well. Before you do the rack and pinion though, one bolt on change would be to go with a TR4 style setup with 3 degrees castor - different trunnions, ball joints and upper arms but that's pretty much it - and it should track more like what you are used to. Anyway just a thought, that's what I've put on at the moment on my 3A project.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

I'd check the toe....and, just a question, but are you running bias or radial ply tyres?

 

[Geo Hahn]

...Is drifting a normal TR3 thing with the stock steering box? It tends to follow any irregularities in the road surface when travelling straight.

I don't think I'd call the TR3 steering 'precise' compared to modern cars but words like 'drift' and 'wander' don't sound right.

Have you checked the toe-in? Is the steering box adjusted to the proper tightness? Any play in the silenblocs? Perhaps with all the work you've done these have all been addressed but when set-up right the car should want to go in a straight line.

 

[TR3driver]

They do tend to follow irregularities in the road much more than we are used to with modern cars. But drifting on a reasonably flat road should be quite minimal. I once drove over 20 miles without touching the steering wheel, on the Bee Line highway in Florida. And driving to work every day on the freeway, I don't notice having to correct any more often than with my other cars.

Given how old they are, IMO it's worthwhile finding a reputable front end shop that will accurately measure toe, caster, camber, and king pin inclination. Although only toe is directly adjustable, any wear or damage to the front suspension will show up as the other measurements being different than they should be.

Not necessarily related, but I once drove for nearly a year with one of the front suspension pivots ripped out of the frame. Even the alignment shop didn't spot the problem. But I finally figured out why the car would pull so violently to one side when you stepped on the brakes.

BTW, the later TR4 components (for the 3 degrees of caster) should also be used with different steering arms. The change in the upper arms moves the center of the vertical link slightly to the rear, so the longer arms are needed to maintain the steering geometry. But even though I've got the TR4 components in the parts bin, I've never bothered installing them, so I don't know how much effect using the shorter TR3 arms causes.

 

[karls59tr]

I had that problem with my 3 but it tracks straight now after doing the front end and setting up the camber. your car looks great. Where did you get that grille? I've always liked that style.it's different from the "dollar bill grin" grille you usually see on a TR3.

 

[Got_All_4]

Sounds like your describing my car 5 years ago. I did all you are doing with little improvment. I then took the steering box out and purchased new bearings and shims. Also sourced a very nice worm gear shaft and the peg that goes into the shaft was worn and it too was replaced. Don't forget to check the rocker shaft bush too for play. What a difference in the steering after proper adjusting. In fact I made the statement here on the forum that I didn't know that TR3 steering could be that good and tight. Good luck!

 

[TFR]

Instead of spending a lot of time and effort on my stock steering I chose the rack and pinion upgrade. If you are a purist then no R&P. If you want to drive a fine car with great handling, then R&P... I bought the racetorations version. $1200 back in 2007...

 

[Tr3aguy]

John,
It certainly looks fantastic....I hope mine comes out half that nice....even with a wander. I wish you had took me up on my offer to take that ugly grill....wink wink,,,,

 

[EV2239]

They should run as true as any modern car, but have less precise steering, though nothing to worry about.

Radial Ply tyres are a must because old bias or crossplies will wander all over the place and worse as they wear. They are horrid.

The other reason for wandering is that some part of the steering has seized or is very stiff, so jack it up, grease everything and make sure it is all free.

Ash with a TR3A, a BJ7

www.kda132.com

 

[Wifesmainwrench]

Back in the mid '60's, the first thing we did was replace the entire front suspension of our racing 3 with that of a 4. We had gobs of money then, so had the conversion done by a top notch frame/front end shop in PPG. As we ran no fan, the interference problem w/ the rack wasn't a problem. The best part was watching somebody other than myself do the work. It handled like a different car. We used 0 degree toe-in, by the way as to encourage faster turn-in. I think it worked (?)
FPH

 

[racingenglishcars]

Typically either excessive toe-in or a bit of toe-out can cause wandering. Camber affects how the tire sits on the road, mostly noticed when making a hard turn. Caster affects ability to turn quickly and straighten up after a turn. Maybe someone remembers a recall of the Dodge Omni which at first (1980's) came with too little caster and became unstable at speed.

TR-3's have a pretty archaic steering box, but usually it only makes them tough to turn. It doesn't affect wandering. That is usually toe adjustment. (don't forget tire pressures)

 

[CJD]

Thanks for all the replies and great information! I think I may have exagerated a bit with the severity. I wouldn't even go as far as to call it "annoying"..."noticable" is probably a better description.

Every bearing and bush is brand new, so it may just be the suspension settling in to its ride height after sitting for so long. I'll check the toe and camber at an alignment shop, just to make sure everything is straight. After that it's time to enjoy it!

Thanks again! I'll let you know if they find anything out of whack at the alignment shop.

John

 

[mrv8q]

Did you use the original type silentblocs, or one of the newer alternatives?

 

[CJD]

I used the original style silentblocs...and I still can't tell what holds them together.

John

 

[martx-5]

I used the original style silentblocs...and I still can't tell what holds them together.

John

Hide glue...that's why you can't see it. :laugh:

 

[EV2239]

Wandering is almost always because something is too stiff. Rolls-Royce Silver Clouds and Rover P4s do it because the King Pins have seized for example.

Unless the track is miles out, you probably won't notice anything until the tyres are well worn and on one side.

You could also make sure the steering box and idler box aren't stiff. The former usually ends up with some straight ahead slack to stop it binding on lock.

Ash

 

[ekamm]

Love the silver!

 

[SPACER]

Semi Related to this thread:

My car has a bit of play in the front wheels.
i thought it was excessive so I checked the adjustment of the castellated nuts.
The Haynes manual says, snug them up then back off 1.5 to 2 flats.
I did this & they were still a bit loose.
Am I too fussy?
Do your front wheels have noticable play when you shake the wheels. You can do this on the ground. No need to jack it up to check.
Hoping for a response.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[TR3driver]

Just one of the many mistakes in the Haynes manual. Later manuals from Triumph say to use 1/2 flat.

At 1/2 flat, you can just barely feel a tiny amount of play by shaking the top of the wheel in/out.