Installing Head bolts and copper gasket

[Koopster]

Hi Guys,
I just got my TR3 engine block from the machine shop.

I need to reinstall the head bolts in the block. Does anyone know at what torque setting are this bolts to be set at into the block itself? Can I use Anti-seize on the treads?

As to the installation of the copper head gasket, should the seam side be up or down?

Thanks, John

 

[TR3driver]

Finger-tight will do for the studs; no sense putting any more force on the threads than needed to clamp the head down, IMO. AS on the threads won't hurt, but make sure the holes in the block are clear.

I don't believe it makes much difference on the gasket (all modern gaskets have an extra hole for the oil passage); but I install mine with the seams up.

 

[KVH]

I'd carefully clean the threads deep in the block with the extension of a wire brush used to clean a gun barrel. Swab the stud holes thoroughly to remove all dirt.

New studs go in finger tight, but I had to violate the rule. No matter how hard a tried, and I got some binding and had to use the double nut trick to sink them a little deeper. They must seat all the way down and "finger tight" can be tricky.

I'd install that gasket seam side up, like TR3 Driver says. I would never use a solid copper gasket--after a bad experience.

Good luck.

 

[Koopster]

Thanks Guys,

My block was acid bath and is clean as it gets. Thanks for your quick responds. Thanks again. John

 

[doughairfield]

I'm going to be putting the head back on my TR4 engine soon, I hope. It seems the jury is still out on whether to use the copper head gasket or the Payen Brand gasket. Koopster, did you buy the copper gasket separate or did you buy the head gasket kit, I'm trying to decide on both.

 

[TR3driver]

Since Koopster was asking about the seams, I assume he has the standard composite gasket, which is copper cladding wrapped around an inner layer of some sort (used to be asbestos).

The solid copper gaskets that are available are strictly racing items, IMO. They are handy if you need to modify the cylinder cutout or want a custom thickness or pull your motor apart 4 or 5 times a year; but overall are rather more difficult to keep sealed, especially for long periods of time. Just the fact that Gasket Works (whose owner is a well-known Triumph vintage racer) has developed their own gasket dressing for solid copper gaskets should tell you something.

Payen is good quality, hard to go wrong with that. But any of the composite type gaskets will work fine, if everything else is right. (And as I learned the hard way, nothing will seal for long if other things are not right, like liner protrusion.)

 

[PeterK]

It really gets you between a rock and a hard place. If you do any mods to the combustion chamber, unshroud the intake, etc. then the ONLY way to go is a solid copper gasket because you also have to trim the gasket around the mod'ed chamber. I used GasketWorks gasket and special sealer applied as instructed, multiple coats and let dry before installation.

Is there another choice that I am not aware of?

 

[TR3driver]

The "shim steel" gaskets can also be modified (if you don't need to go too far) and, from what I've heard, are easier to keep sealed.

Mine didn't stay sealed, but that gets back to that "everything else must be right" thing ... liner protrusion was OK on one side and non-existent on the other! Plus I discovered later that, with that motor, it let the pistons kiss the head :shocked: so I didn't repeat the experiment.

 

[doughairfield]

I'm ready to put the head on my TR4 tonight with the Payen head gasket. The manual says to put jointing compound on the head gasket, but that seems like i'd be glueing the head on, and I thought I'd read somewhere that was a bad idea. What's the consensus here on using the jointing compound when putting the head back on?

 

[KVH]

On the Payen "sandwich" gasket with the seams, no jointing compound is used. Some solid gaskets recommend a compound, but you don't use anything with the Payen gasket.

 

[Geo Hahn]

I'm no expert but following some advice I spray paint mine (Payen copper-clad)with plain old aluminum spray paint, couple of coats, before installing. Couldn't see any harm in that and supposedly it gives a little help to sealing any irregularities.

After everythings is buttoned up I wipe the paint off the exposed edge of the gasket so I again have that stripe of copper exposed.

 

[PeterK]

Anytime you spray a coating (Gasketworks copper spray or just plain old aluminum paint as Geo used), you need to let the coating cure overnight before putting it back together. Keeps the torque from squirting off/out the coating.

 

[TR3driver]

I could never tell that coating helped, or hurt. So I don't bother.