Electronic Ignition?

[scott_74]

I had posted back in April about my 1275 going through short, intermittent spits of power loss. Having replaced the condenser a few days prior, I ended up swapping in a new one and it fixed the problem. That is, until recently, when similar symptoms arose...to a much lesser extent.

So again, I swapped in a new condenser. And it runs great now.

I'm getting tired of replacing these things, and I'm considering getting an electronic ignition. Is this a smart move? If so, which one do you all recommend? I understand some replace the whole dizzy whereas others utilize your existing one. What are the benefits of each?


Sarastro...at your request, I'm planning on mailing you one of my bad condensers on Monday. I'd be interested to see what you find.


Thanks all.
Scott

 

[lesingepsycho]

Sounds like a coil without the proper ballast to me. Without the proper ballast resistor there is too much current going to the points/condensor and that will cause heat build up, arcing of the points, premature failure and the symptoms you're describing. I will, however, add that all things being equal, I have myself made the switch to an electronic dizzy and that sidesteps the problem altogether. I went with the Flamethrower complete dizzy since my old vacuum advance was dead. Not the cheapest option by any means however.
JACK

 

[dklawson]

See this recent thread:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/topics/590573

 

[Pythias]

I have Crane so I haven't had to source condensors, so I don't know if it's a quality issue with the supplier or not. Anyone? ..

However Peter the Parts Pimp (https://www.nosimport.com/) sells electronic replacements. He's taken the guts out, installed diodes and such, (including an LED so you can easily static time). It limits the voltage across the points to .4 volts and makes the points last and last.

NFI

 

[Sarastro]

Actually, I'd love to get to the bottom of this capacitor problem. So, I'll make the offer again: if you have a suspect capacitor, send it to me at the address below, and I'll make some measurements and see if I can figure out what's going on. Send it to

Steve Maas
PO Box 7284
Long Beach, CA 90807

It would be best to receive several, so I can see if there is some common failure mode or if they are all failing differently.

My shop manual lists the capacitor as 0.25 microfarad. It seems to me that one solution is just to get an electronic capacitor that's small enough to fit, and simply use that. Need to have a breakdown voltage rating of about 600V or more, though.

 

[texas_bugeye]

Maybe there is a reason for this monster.
https://www.swiftune.com/Category/68/ignition.aspx

I know that there are some really crappy conductive rotors out there, here some good ones.

I switched over to a flame thrower distributor 1-2 years ago so I cant say to much.And yes I do like it.I was running the standard BE unit wore out bad curve this was a cheap easy fix.

 

[jlaird]

Check inside the Dizzy and see if the wire from the coil is actually insulated from what ever it is touching as it vibrates.

 

[regularman]

There is a lot of poor quality condensers out there. I got two of them. I never had them fail that fast in any other car.

 

[bthompson]

One of the first things I've always done with a 'new' car is swap out the points for Pertronix guts. True that most of my previous cars were hulking GM beasts from the '60s, but points and dwell and caps and voltage were just always too fussy for me. I eventually got tired of chasing down ignition problems. I've never had any probs since. Luckily, I got Nigel with a Pertronix already in.

So my vote's for "smart move." A Pertronix unit will fit right under your existing distributor cap...if you don't take it off you'd never know it was there.

 

[scott_74]

Thanks for the replies.

Is the ballast resistor part of the coil? If not, I don't think I have one in there. I've had condensers go bad with my original coil and with the new one I put in a few months back (from Moss). But it ran great for several years prior to all this, so I can't see how the problem could be related to the coil itself.

It's running great now, so it's hard to do much troubleshooting. I'm almost apt to wait it out and see if it acts up again in a few months. I'm more curious than anything else now.

Thanks.
Scott

 

[dklawson]

Is the ballast resistor part of the coil? If not, I don't think I have one in there.

Terminology used varies. However, I'll try a quick summary that will hopefully answer that.

Standard Ignition:
The coil will have a resistance across its primary (low-tension) windings close to 3 Ohms. Some people say this coil is "internally ballasted", others refer to it as a "12V coil". Really... it's just a standard coil.

Ballast Ignition:
(Sometimes referred to as a 6V coil). The coil will have a resistance across its primary windings between 1 and 2 Ohms. It MAY have an external ballast resistor (as on some Triumphs). A Lucas variation to the external ballast resistor is to supply the coil using a "resistance wire". The resistance wire runs from the ignition switch to the coil (+) terminal and is typically "pink" in color. Ballast ignition systems will also have a second wire on coil (+), typically white/yellow in color. The other end of the white/yellow wire goes to a small terminal on the starter solenoid.

 

[Sarastro]

Maybe there is a reason for this monster.
https://www.swiftune.com/Category/68/ignition.aspx

I know that there are some really crappy conductive rotors out there, here some good ones.

Yes, there's a reason for it: take a ten-cent capacitor, put it in a fancy housing, call it "competition," and charge 40 bucks for it.

As for the "conductive rotors": I've yet to see one. Again, it's easy to claim that the $3 ones are conductive and sell a "better" one for $15. But I'll add it to my offer: if anyone has a rotor he suspects to be conductive, send it to me, and I'll measure the resistivity of its material.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

I do not know about conductive rotors, but I've had two crack within 500 miles of use. That was enough for me to spring for the red ones. I think I paid $7.50.

 

[bill_young]

Scott, I would consider installing a Pertronics trigger module in your distributor and keeping the points and condensor as an emergency back up in the boot. Pertronics units have a good reputation for being reliable, but like any electronics item when and if they fail it's replacement time and you don't want to be stranded somewhere waiting for a new unit to be shipped in. I would also recommend the services and parts sold by Jeff at Advanced Distributors. https://www.advanceddistributors.com/ He has a great reputation in the LBC community for great work at reasonable prices. He does sell the "red" rotors made from improved material and made without the rivet that seemed to have been a source of problems in the other style rotors.
Steve, I hope you can get some condensors. I've worked around electronics for over 35 years now and have only seen a few failures of electrolytic caps so I also would be curious what the problems are with these. I know that physical damage such as a ding in the side can short one out, perhaps that's what is happing with these. When I was younger in the 60s we just replaced the condenser along with the points as part of a standard tune up, they were cheap and I guess it was cheap insurance in that case but seldom saw one fail, and if it did you could simply unhook it until you could get a replacement and at least drive the car.

 

[dklawson]

I used to work for Sprague Electric making capacitors. I suspect that the failures are from low quality kraft paper between the metal layers. I have nothing to base that on... just suspicion.

I have not personally had a rotor fail but (and I hate to reference second hand information...) I have a friend who did. After trying everything he could to get his car running he finally put an old rotor on and it fired right up. At the urging of people on another board, he reinstalled the "bad" rotor in the dizzy and measured the resistance between the brass arm and the dizzy housing. I don't remember the value he measured... but it was measurable, not infinite.

In addition to Jeff's red rotor, there are also blue (epoxy?) rotors now available from a couple of other sources. All are aimed at addressing the type of failure my friend experienced with his rotor.

 

[jlaird]

Got my red rotors from Jeff. Think it was $15 for two. One in Miss Agatha and one for my spare box of ign bits.

Also got a spare set of points, condencer, and the internal wire bit from Jeff for my spare box.

Thank goodness for Jeff, does us a real service.