Electronic Ignition Upgrade Questions...

[NardisCNC]

Hello. I have a '66 midget w/ 1098 that runs great. And typically I belong to the school of thought "if it works, don't fix it". However I'm also new to MG's and just got my car a couple months ago. I keep hearing about points being something that need regular attention, but electronic ignition can eliminate this, correct??

Which brings me to my second question... I get both the Moss and Victoria British catalogs, and see that there are several different types. What's the difference between say, the Petronix system and the Flame-Thrower electronic distributor?? I realize the Petronix system utilizes the original distributor, but what's the difference between them? Just the same, what about the Mallory Unilite distributor? Which is the best way to go? Also, if I do this should I also upgrade or change my coil, and if so to which one?

Are there any advantages to sticking with points?? Thanks for any help!!

 

[mrsprite]

Points are OK, but inefficient in the long run as they require contant attention and adjustment. I used to have starting issues and driveability issues with my Bugeye and all that ceased when I installed the Pertronix ignition. I can go weeks without starting up teh Bugeye and when I do, it fires (and stays running) on the second pull everytime.

Shop around......you can find the Pertronix kit for less than what Moss & VB charges. I paid $60 for my kit, although I do have a different engine in my Bugeye. I can't imagine the Spridget kit being much more than that.

 

[dklawson]

I think the Pertronix Ignitor module is what is inside the Flamethrower distributor. The difference between the two options is that with the first you use your existing distributor and fit a module. The Flamethrower option is effectively a new distributor with an "optimized" curve and the Ignitor module. However, the optimized curve seems to be for a multitude of engines so I don't know what makes a curve acceptable to both a 948cc A-series AND an 1800cc B-series engine. There must be some compromises. Perhaps someone else can comment about that. Regardless, I have an acquaintance in Australia who has fit the Flamethrower dizzy and is pleased. For competitive pricing, Google for "Retro Rockets". They have traditionally had the best Pertronix pricing online.

There is also the 123 distributor. This is a fully electronic distributor available both with and without vacuum advance. The advance curve is electronically controlled (no weights or springs) and there are 16 pr-programmed curves inside. You use a switch to select the curve you want, install the distributor, time the engine, and off you go. If you don't like the particular advance curve, you select another and off you go again. The distributor uses readily available Bosch caps and rotors. The downside is a high price tag.

There are also Crane/Alison ignitions. Like Pertronix, they are upgrade installations for the standard distributor. There was some recent question about bankruptcy for Crane so I would look into the health of the company/brand before committing to buy one of their ignitions.

For the adventurous, there is also the Hitachi conversion where a mid-1980s Nissan 1.6L distributor can be converted to fit the A-series block. I have one in the Mini and it's been very reliable. I made this conversion as a curiosity and challenge. I did not do it because it was a better system than what else is available.

All that said, points have been around for years. Yes, they require frequent attention. However, when they fail you can fix them on the side of the road, gapping them using matchbook covers. They'll get you home. When an electronic ignition module dies you're looking at either putting the points back in on the side of the road or calling a tow truck. Most of my friends who run Pertronix also carry a set of points in the boot... just in case.

 

[Pythias]

The Pertronix uses "Hall Effect" or magnetic proximity to trigger its module. It's a very easy fit with no modifications. Thus when they fail by the side of the road, it's easy to put the points back in and continue on your way.

The Crane unit uses and optical trigger, but requires you to cut the points locating post off of the action plate in the dizzy. On the other hand they don't fail. They are a pain to get set up.

You will hear both sides of the debate as to the reliability of Pertronix conversions. Some have gone many many years without any issues, and others have gone months, but I have never heard of even ONE failure of the CRANE unit

Pertronix makes specific units for Positive or Negative ground.
The Newer Crane units work either way (I believe). The older ones ARE polarized.

 

[Morris]

I don't have personal experience with Pertronix, but I have read that they can fail if you leave your ignition switch on too long. Just wanted you to know that in case you go the Pertronix route.

 

[NardisCNC]

Thanks for the input so far!! What about changing the coil? Are there any advantages to using anything other than the original?

 

[theleisure]

I think you need to contact Jeff at Advance Distributors: https://www.advanceddistributors.com/

He's a regular on these forums. He'll answer any questions you have and sell you exactly what you need.

 

[dklawson]

but I have never heard of even ONE failure of the CRANE unit

You do now. I had an Alison unit fail. However, to be fair to the Crane/Alison unit, I caused it to fail.

The Crane ignition uses an external module (while all of the Pertronix fits under the dizzy cap). I did not realize that the Crane control module was NOT sealed. I got it wet while washing the engine compartment and the module never worked again. This was no fault of the Crane/Alison unit, but it was a failure. That car now has a Pertronix simply because everything fits under the cap.

There are two problems you will hear of regarding Pertronix.
1) You have to think about how you power and wire them if you have a ballast ignition system. You also have to have a coil with the "correct" resistance.
2) You must NOT leave the ignition on (with the engine off) for more than about 3 minutes at a time. This is a situation that normally only happens during troubleshooting. However, if you leave the module powered up with coil current flowing continuously (engine not running) the Pertronix module will overheat.

There is also a newer Pertronix (Ignitor-II) which does NOT have these problems. However, it is not available for all Lucas dizzys yet.

 

[jlaird]

Excuse me. 55 driveing years and counting. Have never had a standard ign system leave me beside the road. Now lets count electronic ones, 1, 2, 3, 4 ah shucks you know what I mean.

 

[dklawson]

No argument from me Jack. I still have a set of points in the boot of cars where I've installed electronic ignitions. Even for the virtually bullet-proof Hitachi distributor I carry a spare ignition module in the boot. Getting parts from a big-box auto parts store for a 25 year old Japanese distributor really isn't any easier than getting them for a 40 year old British car.

 

[Dadandson]

Thanks Doug L. It is going to be nearly the same price to repair my original dizzy from my 74 as it is to buy a new Flamethrower from Retro Rockets! In goes the flamethrower for my new motor! Thanks for the tip!

 

[Ohiobugeye]

You may also check the thread Posted a few weeks ago regarding the problems with electronic ignitions and the electronic tach. Again keep a spare set of points around just in case.

 

[Dadandson]

So should I carry extra points in case the existing points fail or in case the electronic ignition fails? I am confused!

 

[Pythias]

So should I carry extra points in case the existing points fail or in case the electronic ignition fails? I am confused!

Exactly. Carry spare points.

 

[jlaird]

and a condencer.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I lean to points too, maybe not the trickest set up, but you can carry a few spares with you, and fix it on the side of the road.

 

[Pythias]

I actually carry a spare dizzy already with the points already gapped, complete with new cap and rotor. I think it's easier to change the dizzy than it is to change points.


My 2¢

 

[jlaird]

Especaly in the dark.