TR6 Diagnose noise from clutch area

[Norton47]

Starting up a TR6 with a rebuilt engine and we have a rattle/rubbing noise from the clutch area.
We pulled the trans after the initial start up and found a nut plate from the firewall that the trans tunnel fastens to, in the bell housing.
Re-installed trans and although it sounds better it's not right.
In trying to diagnose it, with the clutch disengaged and the trans in gear, and holding the output shaft (drive line is disconnected) nothing should be rotating in the transmission? correct?
The engine had been in a front end accident and I suspect that the pilot bushing has been distorted, this is because with the clutch disengaged and the trans in gear and holding the output shaft the noise is still there. Nothing else is rotating except the flywheel and bushing around the end of the trans input shaft.
The clutch disc and pressure plate throw out bearing are new and were not in the accident with the engine.
Could it be the pilot bush?

Thanks

 

[trrdster2000]

That is a possibility, but that bushing is quit heavy duty. The only way to tell is pull the transmission and see if there are any tell tale signs on the shaft. Did you add a smear of grease or soak the bushing in oil before installing. I always drop them in a can of light oil for a couple of days, they will soak up oil in the pores and be good to go for a long time.
Do you have the cage roller bushing, that could get a little out of whack if it was hit.

Wayne

 

[Norton47]

The pilot bushing was oiled.
Cage roller bushing? located where?
Would really like to confirm that nothing in the trans was rotating when in gear, output shaft held to keep it from rotating, and the clutch disengage and engine running.

 

[TomMull]

In my experience, the oilite pilot bushing is the most trouble free part of the system and is an very unlikely candidate. Clutch noises are more likely from the throw out bearing or pressure plate. I would also measure the crank end float. (I admit that I once installed a thrust bearing backward and that showed up as a "clutch" noise). The Buckeye Triumphs have a pretty thorough article on the topic. https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/ReliableClutch/ReliableClutch.htm
Tom

 

[trrdster2000]

The input shaft is still turning as you see by the rear output shaft turning just by the oil movement, like a automatic works. The front bearing and the input shaft has a roller bearing in the end of it. Put a screwdriver on the end of the bell housing and see if you can pick up a noise.

Wayne
PS You are up early, must have been wondering about it all night. Welcome to fluctuation.

 

[HerronScott]

Like Tom, I would suspect the throw out bearing or clutch pressure plate.

Scott

 

[Marvin Gruber]

Is there a difference in noise when you have the clutch pedal pushed down. If so then its something to do with the throwout bearing or the sleeve riding on the output shaft.

Marv

 

[Norton47]

To all Thanks
There really doesn't seem to be much difference with clutch in or out. Engine was rebuilt by knowledgeable machine shop.

Wayne, I understand your comparison to an automatic and the oil induced movement.
That is why I keep asking but no one answers.
With the engine running and If the transmission is in gear and I have grabbed the transmission output shaft (drive line is disconnected) and keep it from turning and the clutch is in (disengaged) is anything in the tranmission Turning???
I don't think so and wish to confirm that!

 

[titanic]

When the trans. is in neutral with the engine running, the input shaft is turning and the countershaft gears.
Berry

 

[JerryVV]

Nothing in the transmission will be turning under the conditions you've stated. Placing the transmission in gear with the car not moving stops all movement in the transmission. Trust this answers your question.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Starting up a TR6 with a rebuilt engine and we have a rattle/rubbing noise from the clutch area.
We pulled the trans after the initial start up and found a nut plate from the firewall that the trans tunnel fastens to, in the bell housing.
Re-installed trans and although it sounds better it's not right.
In trying to diagnose it, with the clutch disengaged and the trans in gear, and holding the output shaft (drive line is disconnected) nothing should be rotating in the transmission? correct?
The engine had been in a front end accident and I suspect that the pilot bushing has been distorted, this is because with the clutch disengaged and the trans in gear and holding the output shaft the noise is still there. Nothing else is rotating except the flywheel and bushing around the end of the trans input shaft.
The clutch disc and pressure plate throw out bearing are new and were not in the accident with the engine.
Could it be the pilot bush?

Thanks

Reading the rest of the thread, the noise is not pilot bearing.
If the noise is there in neutral, clutch disengaged, there is zero rotational speed difference present at the pilot bearing. Period.
If it is the same noise in gear, clutch pedal held down, again, not the pilot.
If the clutch arm is fully back, pulling T/O away from plate arms, not the T/O bearing, either.
Clutch disc in backwards. Wrong pressure plate (hitting bell housing).
Ring gear not on flywheel properly, hitting starter or block or bellhousing
Flywheel rubbing on block or bolt somewhere.
Dave

 

[TomMull]

Nothing in the transmission will be turning under the conditions you've stated. Placing the transmission in gear with the car not moving stops all movement in the transmission. Trust this answers your question.

Jerry is correct, nothing moves.
Also stated previously, I think, with the clutch disengaged, there is often enough residual friction in the system for the rear transmission flange to turn slowly with no load, prop shaft disconnected for example, and this would be no cause for concern. If there was enough force for the car to creep ahead, or spin a wheel on jackstands, that would be a different matter.
Tom

 

[Norton47]

Dave and all
Thanks
We pulled the trans yesterday cause of this noise. Found a nut plate in the bell housing from the body where the tunnel gets fastened on. Didn't think that was it but, could not see or feel anything else. The input shaft to the trans rotated smoothly by hand both in gear and out. The T/O was smooth and moved over the input shaft smoothing with no interference. There were no signs of rubbing on the bell housing.
I was mainly wanting to rule out the transmission for sure. Sounds like I can as the noise is there without it rotating.
We will pull it again and take apart the clutch and see and if we have to remove the flywheel and inspect.
Thanks

 

[Norton47]

To All
The trans output shaft will turn slowly in neutral with the engine running. It is also easy to stop by grabbing the output flange.
I agree and it does.
The noise is there all the time, clutch in or clutch out, trans in gear or out. We have the car on stands and even let the wheels drive and the noise seems to be there all the time. You can get a very slight tone change when putting in the clutch but that is most likely from thrust to the crankshaft. Not much really just a hint. That is what has been so frustrating, no definite response to any change.
As the engine and trans was in a car accident, TR6 rear ending a tall 4 wheel drive pickup and going under it, and it big hitch took out the hood and water pump, and bent #1 valve, the engine was completely disassembled and checked out and rebuilt up, the trans was also checked out in an on the bench test set up (driven by an electric motor). All kinds of gremlins prey on the mind.
Keep it simple and go slow, and it shall be reveled.
Thanks