won't start

[airlifter]

I had a lot of posts earlier when I was putting the engine back together on my 69 TR6.

I have it all back together and it will not start. I have fuel, spark and the timing mark seems to be right on.

The engine will not even try to fire. If I had a problem with the timing I would think that I would at least get some firing or at least a backfire every now and then.

I might have gotten the valve timing wrong. I followed the book but my brain does not work as well as I would like sometimes.

Does anyone know what the position all of the valvew then the #1 is at TDC on the firing stroke?

Any and all help appreciated, Pete

 

[DNK]

Not that it really matters, but...where is #1 on the cap in a clock reference?

 

[TFB]

the position of the valves when any cylinder is firing will be closed on compression stroke,firing close to tdc.
Tom

 

[airlifter]

When #1 is TDC and the timing mark is at zero the #1 on the cap is pointing toward the #1 plug, more or less.

This is pretty much where it was when I started.

 

[DNK]

Which direction,7:00; 2:00 ?

 

[airlifter]

If you are looking from the front of the car it is about 7:00.

 

[poolboy]

I'd expect the terminal on the distributor cap AND the rotor to be pointing to 7 o'clock if you consider the oil fill cap to be about NOON when the #1 piston is a TDC in firing position (meaning both valves closed and valve lash .010) You'd be standing on the driver side of the engine bay for this perspective
That is assuming you followed all the instructions in the Manual and got it all right.

 

[airlifter]

I hope I got it right. That is why I wanted to know the configuration of all of the valves when the rotor is in this position.

 

[poolboy]

Your description of the position of the #1 plug wire doesn't sound right. You did say 7'oclock when viewed from the front of the car not from the side of the car... That doesn't sound like you got it right or at least according to the book...

 

[DNK]

It will start if the gear is wrong. Mine is pointed at about 6:32,but that's a different story.
As long as the true TDC is where you are and the rotor is pointed to the #1 wire ,,and the wires are in their proper order . Your golden

 

[tdskip]

Pictures can help Pete if you've got them

 

[Rhodyspit75]

From your question I believe you think you might be 180 degrees out of time. I don't know the answer to the valve position on a 6. I am very familar with it on a Spitfire since I did the same thing. If no one can give you an answer you can remove the distributor and turn the engine 180 degrees then put it back together and give it a shot. That solved my problem. I was still way out of time but it fired right up.

 

[poolboy]

I'd expect the terminal on the distributor cap AND the rotor to be pointing to 7 o'clock if you consider the oil fill cap to be about NOON when the #1 piston is a TDC in firing position (meaning both valves closed and valve lash .010) You'd be standing on the driver side of the engine bay for this perspective
That is assuming you followed all the instructions in the Manual and got it all right.

I had hoped this would have addressed the position of the Valves, Rhodyspit.. As far as what Don said, yes aslong as the rotor is pointing to the #1 or any cylinder for that matter when that piston is in firing position, than as he said "you're Golden". It's just that if you did follow the Manual, which is always a good idea, the rotor would be pointing to 7 when #1 meets the conditions required for combustion.

 

[TR3driver]

Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4. So with #1 ready to fire (at TDC between compression and power strokes), both valves will be fully closed on #1 and both will be partially open on #6 (which will be at TDC between intake and exhaust). That's really all you need to check for valve timing, as the others will all be correct too (unless you've got a very strange camshaft).

For a stock cam timed "straight up", the valves on #6 will be open by the same amount. However the engine should still at least try to run if you are off by a tooth in either direction, which is enough to make them very obviously different.

Note that it is worth checking the piston position directly. Sometimes the timing mark on the dampener is wrong.

And FWIW, I agree with RhodySpit75. Having the ignition timing off by 180 degrees is pretty much like not having any ignition at all, since the spark happens when there is nothing in the cylinder that will burn.

 

[TFB]

If you can rotate crank and observe midpoint where any exhaust valve for any cylinder is just closing ,and intake valve just opening,this would be close to TDC,180 deg.from firing position.So if you rotate crank from present firing point,and you see the intake valve start to open,you are off.
tom

 

[airlifter]

Thanks everyone. It is raining here today so I hope I can get in the shop and check further.

 

[airlifter]

I think I might have screwed up when I installed the cam sprockets. I checked TDC as well as I could without removing the head.

At TDC #1 valve was closed, #2 valve was partially open, #'s 11 and 12 had about the same amount of clearance. The rotor was pointing toward #1 plug.

I removed the timing chain cover and checked the cam orientation. The "milled out" section was about 180 degrees from where the book said it should be.

I am thinking I am going to have to remove the head to check TDC and start all over again.

Some one please tell me that there is an easier way.

Pete

 

[startech47]

Yes there is.

I take a spark plug remove the ground electrode, grind the metal crimped shoulder of the shell closest to the spark plug wire terminal, and than take a punch and knock all of the ceramic out. This leaves a metal shell you can tap threads into. I use a piece of all thread with the end rounded and a hex nut. Take all plugs out. You thread the modified plug into number number one cylinder and gently rotate the engine, by hand only, adjusting the all thread until it stops the piston. Mark this location on the dampener at the timing indicator. Gently rotate in the other direction until the piston is contacted and place another mark on the dampener. Find the location at the middle between these 2 marks. This is the TDC location.

 

[poolboy]

You could rearrange the spark plug wires on the distributor cap.
If the crank hasn't been rotated since your description, put the plug wire to #6 where the rotor is pointing, then in a counterclockwise direction 2 4 1 5 and 3 or you could remove the pin in the bottom of the distributor, rotate the driven dog 180 degrees and then when you replace the distributor and line up the dog with the slot in the dizzy drive gear the rotor will point 180 degrees opposite from where it currently points.
If you have rotated the crank since you posted just make sure when all is said and done the rotor is pointing at the cylinder in compression/ firing position and that the wires on the distributor cap are in proper order and going to the proper spark plug.

 

[TR3driver]

I take a spark plug remove the ground electrode, grind the metal crimped shoulder of the shell closest to the spark plug wire terminal, and than take a punch and knock all of the ceramic out. This leaves a metal shell you can tap threads into. I use a piece of all thread with the end rounded and a hex nut.

I did the same thing except I cut the head off a bolt (didn't have any threaded rod handy in the right size).

But if that is too much for you, you can also buy a "piston stop" at any racer supply house https://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand...s/?autoview=sku

However, your description of having both valves for #6 open by roughly the same amount, but one valve for #1 partially open sounds very strange to me. To have both both valves partially open, #6 must be in it's overlap period, which should put #1 well within the period where both valves are closed (either compression or power stroke).

Are you sure the valves are set properly?