Bugeye won't start

[longbridgehealey]

So I left my Bugeye sit in the garage for a month (I know, what was I thinking). Went to move it last night, and she wouldn't start. The engine turns over strongly, but no start. The last time she was out she went almost 200 miles, no problem. So this weekend I'm going to try to figure it out. Here's my plan, what am I missing? First pull plug wire and see if I get a spark, to check rotor (Rotor is new, less than two months old, but I guess that doesn't mean anything). If I get a spark, then I'm going to pull fuel line at carbs and see if pump is working. If I get fuel flowing, then what should I look for? I'm pretty new at this, so don't ignore the obvious, thinking I'll know what to do - I'll take all ideas!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Larry

 

[JPSmit]

Larry, I'd go this route.

1. check the color of the plugs - this will be a good diagnostic start. Compare to this https://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm . I'm going to suggest you most likely will be looking for carbon fouled (too rich) in which case, clean them, lean out your engine two or three flats and you are good to go.

If plugs are good.

2. Try to start the car with starter fluid sprayed directly in the carb. If it starts, you have a fuel issue.

3. If neither of these work, next would be spark.

assuming nothing else has changed or been tampered with I doubt it is timing.

good luck and let us know

 

[jvandyke]

You turned the key on right? Or am I only that dense? I sometimes forget to turn the key on and simply pull the starter switch and wonder why it doesn't fire, then I turn the key on, blush and away I go.

 

[jvandyke]

Another potential simple thing. I had a wire in the dizzy come loose this summer. The one that runs from the spade terminal to the points. I'd pull a plug as J P suggested, check it's condition, hold against the block while cranking and if it sparks move on to fuel issue. Pop the cap and eyeball it if you don't have spark.

 

[Guest]

Larry, I'd go this route.

1. check the color of the plugs - this will be a good diagnostic start. Compare

Try to start it just before you do this. That way, when you pull the plugs, you can see if they are wet or not. If they are wet, you no have sparky sparky. if they are dry, you no have fuely fuely.

DISCLAIMER: I have pulled plugs on my 1500 that were BONE DRY only to find my problem was ignition later on. (had a DGV with a strong accel pump too) This was the only time in 30 years that "wet or dry" didn't diagnos the problem. I have no idea why this happened. Like I said before, leave it to the English to...

 

[longbridgehealey]

Yep, turned key on. Wouldn't put it past me to not do that, though....

Thanks everybody for the advice, I'll let you know what happens. I put a new cap, wires, rotor and plugs in her last month, everything seemed fine then. Go figure!

 

[Deleted member 8987]

You put an electric pump on it?
Does it go "tick-tick-tick" with ignition on?

Mechanical only?

Dried out internal valves, fuel ran back to tank.

I have done a LOT of initial start-ups after storage by applying low pressure air to fill pipe (wrap a rag around nozzle).
If the fuel has run back into tank, the float bowls will be empty. Applying air pushes petrol down the line, through the one-way valves in the mechanical pump, up to the carbs, fills the bowl, needle valves close, then start it up, eh?

On some of my older cars that do sit, I have installed a free-flow electric pump at the tank with a toggle switch hidden under the dash.
Ignition on, toggle on, wait for the slowdown in pump speed, choke, start.
Then turn the electric pump off.

If you can blow easily through the electric pump, the mechanical will draw through it okay.

 

[Legal Bill]

Just the obvious first...Make sure you have gas in the tank. Then:

1. Try to start it again. (You'd be surprised)

2. Check the low tension wire to the distributor to make sure it did not fall off. Same with the coil.

3. Pull the cap, turn on the ignition, and crank the engine while looking at the points in a fairly dark or dimly lit area and make sure you have spark at the points. While you are under the cap, make sure the rotor is properly seated, the condensor screw is tight and the cap looks ok. If you find problems here, tidy things up, put the cap back on and start the car.

4. If you have spark at the points, but it still won't start pull #1 plug, reattach the plug wire to it and just set the plug electrode on the head or block for gound and then crank it over and see if you have a spark at the plugs. If no spark to the plugs, you have a problem between the rotor and the cap. Maybe even wet plug wire connections. But all of that is unlikely.

Assuming you have spark to the plugs and it still won't start...

5. Next, pull the fuel line AFTER the fuel filter, preferably right where the fuel line goes into the front carb. Stick the fuel line into some kind of reasonably safe container and turn on electric pump or crank engine to work the mechanical pump and see if you are getting fuel to the carbs.

6. If you are not getting fuel, check to make sure your fuel filter is not clogged. If it is not clogged, next You can disconnect the fuel line going into the fuel pump. Fuel should come out of the disconnected line if the tank is full. On a low tank, this may not flow. I've seen guys suck on the line... I don't advise that. But you get the idea here. Make sure you have a flow of fuel to the pump. If you do, and the pump is not moving gas to the carbs, you wither have a bad mechanical pump or a problen with an electric pump that you may be able to fix without replacing the pump.

7. If you are getting fuel to the carb, but it still isn't starting, then pull the cover off the bowl of the front carb and unstick the stuck-closed float valve. Fuel will now enter the carb bowls and the car will start. Make it a point to replace the float valve needle and seat to prevent it from happening again.


In the past, I have had the stuck float valve and have curred it for the moment by hitting the top of the float cover with a screw driver handle. This shakes the needle open in some cases and you don't have to do any of the above steps, just replace the needle and seat. But a really well stuck needle will not shake loose.

Good luck.

 

[Sarastro]

Basic troubleshooting: check for fuel at the carbs, spark at the plugs. Seems inevitable that you're not getting one of those--if you were getting both, you'd at least get a sputter. Next, when you've determined which you're missing, figure out why. If no fuel, it's gotta be a bad pump or plugged line. Probably not the carbs themselves, because both would have to be bad, and that's pretty unlikely. A car will start on a single carb.

If no spark, see if you're getting spark at the coil HV terminal. If not, check voltage at the + terminal, points, all the obvious stuff. Make sure the points are in right--they often are put in wrong, so the electrical lead to them easily gets shorted to ground.

Approach this methodically and you'll find the problem. When something is not running at all, it's usually much easier to fix than when it's just running badly.

 

[Legal Bill]

Thinking about this more tonight; if there is no spark at the points, take a look at the ignition switch and the connections at the switch.

 

[64rocksprite]

Maybe a condenser gone bad? (If no spark) Seems that bad condensers seem to be going around..

 

[toysrrus]

Hi Folks,

I`m baffled??

I bought a "Repro" Mech. Feul Pump from "Moss" for my "948". Installed & Engine Fired right up! Yeah, We`re good to go (So I thought). 30 seconds later; She quits.

I could`nt get her to fire up again! Engine is turning real strong, feul is flowing from the line to the pump.

My question is: What or How do I "Prime" this pump? It does not have a "Lever" on it as the Orig. Whats the magic trick here?

Thanx for Your Help,

Russ

 

[jlaird]

Gesh, get a pump that works.

Or at least test that one.

 

[longbridgehealey]

OK everybody, thanks for all of the info. I've actually printed out this thread, and this Saturday we'll see what happens. These cars are giving me a pretty steep learning curve, but it's a lot more fun than letting somebody else do it! It's amazing what you can learn when you really want to, and have folks like the ones on this Forum to help.

Thanks a lot to all of you, I'll report back after the weekend (or maybe sooner).
Larry

 

[Legal Bill]

Hi Folks,

I`m baffled??

I bought a "Repro" Mech. Feul Pump from "Moss" for my "948". Installed & Engine Fired right up! Yeah, We`re good to go (So I thought). 30 seconds later; She quits.

I could`nt get her to fire up again! Engine is turning real strong, feul is flowing from the line to the pump.

My question is: What or How do I "Prime" this pump? It does not have a "Lever" on it as the Orig. Whats the magic trick here?

Thanx for Your Help,

Russ

If gas is comint in to the mechanical pump, but the pump is not delivering fuel to the carbs, do the following:

1. Disconnect the line coming out of the pump to the carbs and crank it over. If gas comes out at this point, your problem isprobably in the fuel line to the carbs.

2. If nothing comes out, remove the pump from the engine and operate the lver by hand with the fuel line connected on the intake side of the pump. If no fuel comes out, the pump is bad. If fuel comes out, then...

3. IIRC, either you did not have the fuel pump lever properly installed in relation to the cam lobe that operates it, or you have a pump with the wrong length lever on it. Compare it to your old pump and see if they arms are a different length. If they are the same, then carefully reinstall the pump and make sure the lever is in position with respect to the cam lobe so that the lobe operates the lever as it turns. IIRC, you can install the lever "under" the lobe and it never operates it. I may be wrong about that part. My memory is fading on this issue.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Don't be surprised if points are fried and it's a bad condenser. I had that with Bugsy my '68 a few weeks ago. Didn't suspect the points at all as I had just changed out. After 3 months of missing summer driving my local LBC guy found issue after I had given up. Cost me 90 miutes of shop time but I can't get back 3 months of missed summer. Bugsy will be out today with tonneau on. Sunny and 50 today in Dayton, perfect tonneau on and heater on weather.

 

[toysrrus]

Howdy Folks,

Has anyone here run an "In-Line" Feul Pump while still using the existing "Mechanical Pump" mounted on the block?

I`m considering this cause She`s running (Well OK) but still I`m getting that "Intermittent" feul flow or at least it seems like that.

I`m just concerned about the possibility of over-flowing the carbs.

Thanx in Advance for Your Input,

Regards, Russ

 

[DrEntropy]

The valves in the mechanical pump will allow you to push fuel past 'em with an electric pump. Diaphragm leaking of the 'original' into the crankcase is another issue entirely. :wink:

If you're goin' thru the drill of engineering an electric pump, just finish the task and bypass the AC one.

 

[Sarastro]

You can put an electric pump in series with the mechanical one, but there's little reason to do it, in my opinion at least. And, yes, with such an arrangement you do run the risk of having too much outlet pressure.

As for priming the mechanical pump--generally this is not necessary, but I can imagine a situation where a bubble in the valves might interfere with its operation. I suppose you could disconnect the fuel line at the carburetors and use a mity-vac or something similar to suck some fuel through the pump. Then, if it still didn't work, that would at least eliminate priming as the cause.

 

[JodyFKerr]

My mum's spitfire has been doing similar things (mostly relating to 30 years worth of gunk starting to come loose in the tank). What I found was that the problem was a combination of dirty fuel filter and old rubber hoses.

Those old mechanical pumps are pretty bulletproof. They more or less work until they stop, and that's many years.

To help ensure there were no extra bits of gack in the lines take an empty two liter bottle and a spare length of fuel line. Drill through the cap and force the fuel line through until it hits the bottom of the bottle. Connect just south of the fuel pump (I used an old fuel filter to make it a simple connection). Open the gas tank cap to vent the tank, fill the bottle with gasoline and give it a mighty squeeze. The flow of gasoline going back to the tank will completely prime the lines and push out/back any debris.

If the car then runs great for a few days, and then starts to run poorly again your problem is debris in the fuel tank that needs to be cleaned out.