Other "REAL" Grand Tourismos & "not so" GTs

[Bret]

Ok lets have some fun.

My "Other Car" GT thread here made me think this'd be a great time to list "other cars" that could be considered a true GT as well as those that don't.

Caveat this list isn’t restricted to the unobtainable or rare (as Tony points out) - but for all vehicles that truly meet the general idea of what a Grand Tourer should be set down in the other tread.

*Torque
*Exceptional performance
*Comfort
*Cover large distances very quickly

I’ll start out with "some examples" of what I think fits the general notion of what a Grand Tourer should be:
Audi Coupe GT (5 cylinder barely makes the grade)
BMW 8 series (Prefer the V12 over the V8)
BMW M6 (ugly Arse-end, but they fit the bill in spades)
Jaguars XJS (Always loved the coupe – now if I could just find one with a manual)
Jaguars E-types coupes (Just because)
Lotus Europa (Old school. Not so sure about the new S however)
Mitsubishi GTO (AKA 3000GT & the Dodge Stealth R/T in N. America)
Pontiac GTO (Not a fan but the new one is more GT - than the original)
Subaru SVX (forefather to many of the AWD Subies we see today. Too bad it didn’t come in a manual)

Now I realize that some may contest my recommendations above but rather than argue about it lets get really down & dirty and list some cars that despite the GT badging aren’t by any starch of the imagination GTs:

Not real GTs IMHO:
Ford Mustang GT
Ford Escort GT
Ford GT (see Carrera GT)
Pontiac Grand Prix GT
Pontiac Grand AM GT
Porsche Carrera GT (I know many P-car friends who’ll disagree – but I like to see their eyes “bulge” out /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif – until I admit it’s really a Super Car)

So what cars make (or dosn't make) the grade in your book?

 

[tony barnhill]

That's a pretty good start for a list - both of them!!

 

[JPSmit]

I'm going to quibble with the Europa as I think the car should have a back seat (however small) to qualify. Will add Citroen SM though.

 

[tony barnhill]

John-Peter....gotta agree with you - just noticed the Europa tucked in the middle of the list

FWIW...MGC GT!!

 

[Bret]

Hey guys, I said my list was only as start. I could've added a number of others but thought I'd leave a few for others to add. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Regarding the Europa. I must admit it’s addition to my list was more sentimental than based on any real hard data. Having only ridden in a couple of examples over the years, I always thought it was an extremely comfortable car for it’s size. It’s size, weight and small displacement would also admittedly fly directly in the face of the general GT concept as laid out in the other thread. But then the owner never had it over 65mph, so I couldn’t say how the car would perform on a long road trip – the ultimate test of a GT in my view.

 

[Bugeye58]

Bret, had you ever taken a "long road trip" in a Europa, it wouldn't be on the list.
Jeff

 

[drooartz]

I took a decent length road trip in a 1990 Mustang GT with a girlfriend (her car) in a former life. Comfy, and cruised effortlessly at 100. I would put this on my (affordable) GT car list.

 

[Bret]

Jeff, you may be right about the Europa. Again it was more of a sentimental choice.

Drew, Don’t get me wrong. I’ve always had a soft spot for all things Mustang (save the Mustang II) and think they're great vehicles. I’m particularly fond of the old Box bodies that you mentioned and actually prefer them to the 94-04 Stangs that I’ve always considered a bit cramped even compared to my 78 MGB.

I just have a problem calling Mustangs a true GT. GT'ish? Maybe. But in my book they’re more muscle or pony car like than a GT.

 

[DrEntropy]

I've pushed Europas on long trips (in excess of four hours) and found it "almost adequate". The +2 is a far better Lotus "GT" choice. And the Alfa GTV is a wonderful thing to go outside the yard in. There might even be a BMW "Bavaria" on MY list.

 

[JPSmit]

Bavaria is four doors /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonono.gif back to the 6 series - 1600/ 2002 maybe?

Mercedes SEL?

 

[tony barnhill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Mercedes SEL? [/QUOTE]
4-door; however...

450SLC, 380SLC, 560SLC...plus the 560SEC

 

[JPSmit]

I knew that /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif I know it's a Chrysler but I do have a soft spot for Crossfires

 

[Guest]

I'd add the Ferrari 456, 996C4S and Audi S8 to the list before I even thought about it.

If you go to Spain, you'll be doing 250km/h through the mountains and be passed by an S8 every 2 minutes, regular as clockwork.

We were, and yes, Spanish drivers are all insane...

 

[Steve]

Bavaria is four doors /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonono.gif back to the 6 series - 1600/ 2002 maybe?

Mercedes SEL?

I think that the smaller Beemers are too small, excellent sporting saloons though they are. I agree with the Citroen SM.....

Shouldn't the cars be capable of holding a halfway-decent complement of luggage, though? That's the idea of the GT car anyway, isn't it?

BMW's 6-series coupes certainly fit the mould. How about the six or eight-cylinder TVR coupes? No mention of the Datsun 240Z yet? that was a great car!

 

[coldplugs]

Without limiting a list to a specific era I couldn't make any suggestions.

 

[Bret]

Without limiting a list to a specific era I couldn't make any suggestions.

Well thats the beauty of this John. This is all in good fun.

As you can see from my list above I'm all over the place representing GT cars the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and even today.

 

[racingenglishcars]

For all other reasons to disqualify the Europa, I must mention this. To qualify the car must be able to "Cover large distances very quickly".

Now, IF the Europa COULD cover large distances, the other disqualifications would be valid. But I think it's exactly that which disqualifies the car. It can't without breaking down on the way. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif

 

[prb51]

Porsche 928....

 

[DrEntropy]

If a Europa is disqualified on basis of breakdown frequency, the 928 is punted out as well. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

 

[coldplugs]

...
Well thats the beauty of this John. This is all in good fun.

As you can see from my list above I'm all over the place representing GT cars the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and even today.

Ok, then.

I wouldn't pick anything I couldn't come close to affording, so a Ferrari 250 SWB and the like is out.

In the fifties, I'd have picked an Alfa Giulietta Sprint Veloce. In the sixties, a used XK150 coupe or maybe a Porsche 356 coupe. Then I'd buy a '67 Corvette coupe and use it until the 1990's. Then I'd just get a new Corvette every few years.

Commenting on some other choices: MGC Coupe makes sense. I think the Citroen SM is hideous and don't care how quick it was, it looks like that electric Honda. Europas are not GT's because of the frazzle-factor - drivers of GT's shouldn't need earplugs. What about a Volvo P1800? Also a 350GT Mustang. And remember the Fiat 1600 coupe from about '74?

Say, this is fun...