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RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

toysrrus

Yoda
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RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Howdy Folks,

Well; My engine is all detailed etc etc.

We were going to install the New Clutch the other day & I had purchased a "New" Split Alum "Rear Mail Seal" from Moss.

Would anyone know where I can find the proper procedure for the Removal & Installation of this?

We opened up a "Can of Worms" possibly by breaking the seal on the existing Main Seal so; Now there`s no turning back.

My biggest question is this: Does the "Crank" have to be removed to re-install the New Seal????

Thanx in Advance,

Russ
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

In a word "yes".

The workshop manual describes the preferred method, which is to use a purpose-made mandrel to center the seal around the crank. Note that many agree that the dimensions in the book are not correct, the seal portion of the mandrel should be only 2.818", not the 2.822" shown in the book. (I've also heard that the tool Moss sells is even worse oversize.)

However, it can be done by wrapping thread around the crank journals, both the main journals (to hold the crank centered in the bore) and the seal scroll (to give the required small clearance between the seal & scroll).
 
OP
toysrrus

toysrrus

Yoda
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Hi Randall,

"Thanx" for the info.

Regards, Russ
 

MrAlex

Member
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

I used teflon (plumbers) tape to obtain the spec'd gap using the crankshaft instead of the tool. I did this with the engine vertical though to remove any gravity load. I am real happy with the results as it does not leak at all.
 
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toysrrus

toysrrus

Yoda
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Hi Mr Alex,

Thats quite interesting! So; You "DID NOT" remove the Crank; Correct?

I`m not a Technician or Mechanic by any stretch of the imagination so I have "NO CLUE" exactly what you mean there?

Where during the re-assembly did you put the Teflon Tape?

Also; How or What would I use to seal the area between the back side of the Alum. Seal & the Block itself?

Thanx, Russ

PS: I`m forwarding these comments to my Brit Mech. Guru for his use so; Whatever/Whomever would like to make comments about this; Please do so!
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

To use the teflon tape method (or thread as I mentioned), you remove the crank and wrap the rear main journal, plus the scroll area of the crank. Then the crank and rear main cap are temporarily installed; and the seal halves put into place against the covered scroll area and the bolts tightened. Then the crank & rear main cap get removed again to remove the tape/thread, and continue with final assembly.

The book recommends "shellac" between the seal & block; Permatex #3 will work fine.
https://www.permatex.com/products/Automot...3_Sealant_a.htm
It's also suitable for soaking the felt that seals the rear main cap to the block.

This is all covered (except the thread/tape bit) in the factory workshop manual; either you or your mechanic should definitely have a copy of it. It's not all obvious to the casual mechanic, and getting it wrong will result in leaks or worse.
 
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toysrrus

toysrrus

Yoda
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Howdy Randall,

"Thanx" for all the info.

I / We do have the workshop manual. But, In my opinion; There is no better education available than a "Physical Hands On" experience.

Thanx Again,

Russ
 
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toysrrus

toysrrus

Yoda
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Hi Folks,

Yesterday; We had the engine sitting "Vertical". Removed the Rear Main Cap & Old Seal. Cleaned "Baby Butt Smooth" all surfaces.

With "Crank still Installed"; We tried a "Dry Run" for the fit of the New Rear Main Seal & The upper 1/2 (Looking at the Head) threaded on pretty "Snuggly". We thought we were "Good to Go"; "NOT"!

Each time we "Re-Assemble" the Main Cap & tighten it down (Not even torqued); We "CANNOT" turn the Crank?? We removed the Main Rear Seal (Dry run again) & tightened the Main Cap (Torqued) & Crank turns.

"WHAT THE HECK ARE WE DOING WRONG?

"ALL SUGGESTIONS, COMMENTS, EDUCATION" etc. are "WELCOME"!!

Thanx, Russ

PS: All above work done while Crank is still "INSTALLED"!

PPS: Note that the Mounting Holes on the Seal "DID NOT" match up very well at all on 1/2 of the Seal.
 

Tim Tucker

Jedi Trainee
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Would it be possible to take some shim stock or paper and verify the seemingly obvious: that the scroll area of the crank is touching the scroll seal? If it is, then something has gone wrong. I have the tool, so I have never done it this way. Sounds reasonable. The thickness of string/tape seems critical. If the bearing shells are in place (at least the front and rear to keep alignment?), I would plastigage and add that much teflon tape or string as suggested. With the scroll area of the crank centered, center the seal around it.

Basic question: Can you mount the seal without it touching the crank? I am sure Randall will have suggestions. I have installed one of these: the one currently in my TR4 back in '86. Good Luck!
Tim
 

MDCanaday

Jedi Knight
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Are you tightening the bolts that hold the seal to the cap and block??they should be loose untill the cap is tight.
MD(mad dog)
 
OP
toysrrus

toysrrus

Yoda
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Howdy Folks,

Yesterday; We re-installed the "Old" Seal. I cleaned it up to like brand new. We did a few "Dry" runs & all seemed to be OK.

So; We got out the "Schelak" (Is that how you spell that)? Sealed everything, Torqued the Main Cap & then Torqued the Seal. The crank is "Cranking" and all seems to be fine.

It was an expensive education! Now that we`ve "Elongated" the holes in the "New" Seal (Needed to that to line up with Block holes); I`m going to give "VB" a call & see if they will issue me a credit. "LOL" there!!

Thanx for all the input folks,

Regards, Russ
 

HerronScott

Darth Vader
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Russ,

I had meant to ask earlier if there was a reason that you bought a new one versus using the original one.

Scott
 
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toysrrus

toysrrus

Yoda
Offline
Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Hi Scott,

Being "Un-Knowledgable" about the Rear Main Seal; I did`nt think you could "Re-Use" the old seal. But, Due to the fact that there are no rubber seals involved etc; I have to believe its OK.

When we Test Drove the TR; It was on Jack stands & did`nt leak etc etc. Engine, Trans and Rear all sounded real good. When my Brit Mech. pulled the Engine etc. He said it leaked out the back end. Thats what made me go to a new seal. That was a mistake (Live and Learn). It actually was OK.

I contacted "VB" yesterday & told them about the mis-alignment of the mounting holes in the seal & perhaps the "ID" being too small causing the Crank not to turn.

Surprisingly; Their giving me a full credit even after elongating some of the mounting holes. Those guys are OK in my book.

Regards, Russ
 

HerronScott

Darth Vader
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Re: RE: "MAIN REAL SEAL" Installation Info. Needed:

Russ,

That's good news on the refund.

Scott
 
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