Differences between the 1967 sedans

[vettedog72]

Other than engines what is the differences (size and shape) of 1967 Jag sedans?

 

[John S Farrington]

In the mid 1960s, the sedans were evolving from the Mark 1 and Mark 2 midsize bodies into restyled derivatives. These were called the 420 and the S type. The 420s and S types were a restyling of the Mark 2 to reflect the larger Mark X styling. By the later l960s the top of the line Mark X sedan was relabled as the 420G. The year 1967 offerings reflected this line up in general terms because Jaguar exports of sedans was rather slow in those days and a lot of the new cars at American dealers were being titled as the year of sale, not of manufacture. This tended to cloud what a 1967 Jaguar was. I hope this sheds light on your very interesting question. The XJ6 series 1 was introduced in about 1969 (I think) and that marked the end of the above confusion. Jaguar offered only one size sedan but in stretched versions, hence the designation L, until the S type reappeared. The above discussion is only from my cloudy memory and I invite more factually armed participation.

 

[vettedog72]

A freind had mentioned that the Mark 2 was "more sporty looking" compared to the longer trunk (back)and general larger looks of the 3.8S. I all most had a 3.8s in the mid '70's but passed on it only later to find Icould not shake the car out of my mind. I thought the 3.8's were the mosts sporty sedans Jag made (late models excluded).

 

[John S Farrington]

The mid sized "sporty" bodys were all derivatives of the original Mark 1 of about 1955 vintage. The mid sized sedans were favorites of the Great Britain Police Depts. The intention of this body was a family car that you could take to weekend sporting events such as gymkanas. The larger body (the Mark X which replaced the Mark IX) was intended to be more of a formal luxery or high speed touring car. In some cases they were used as small limos. I was also captivated by a 1955 Mark 1 but I did not buy. Most of my Jags have been XK sports cars or XJ6 sedans. I think that the XJ6 series 3 was the best Jaguar ever. Rivaling that was a great 1954 Mark VII that was our family car during the early sixties. It was better than the Mark X which was a pretty large sedan.

 

[Webserve]

1967 was a transition year for Jaguar. In the area of saloons they produced the Mark 2, the S-Type, the 420, the 240, the 340, the 420G and the Daimler 250 V-8. Needless to say that whilst each of these saloons had it's own unique features, Jaguar had a LOT of duplication. 1968 saw the demise of most of these saloons in favor of the XJ6 and because of the newly passed safety regulations in the US.
Five of the above listed saloons were direct replicas of the original Mark 1 and Mark 2 saloon. The Mark 2 was still considered the flagship. The 240 and the 340 were less expensive models with vinyl interiors and less wood as well as the thinner S-Type bumpers and 2.4 and 3.4 liter engines. The S-Type was actually an upscale from the Mark 2 with "eye-lids" in the front and the extended trunk. There was more wood in the driver's compartment including a slide out tray. The S-Type also had the XKE Independent rear suspension unlike the solid rear axle of the Mark 2. The S-Type eventually took over as the police vehicle of choice due to it's "superior" handling characteristics. The Daimler was nearly identical to the Mark 2 with the exception of some creature upgrades as well as the first V-8 engine.
The 420 was basically the field experiment for the XJ6. It had the same front suspension as well as the same rear suspension as the new XJ6. The XJ6 had rack and pinon steering however. The 420 had exactly the same engine set-up as the first of the XJ6s. The 420 was also negative earth.
Finally there was the 420G. It was a monster compared tot he other saloons. It was a full 14" longer than the 420 and 10" wider. It had many of the refinements that were to become future standardsfor Jaguar such as power windows and air conditioning.

 

[John S Farrington]

Thanks for those details and 67 was a great year of transition. You mentioned the first V8 power. I saw a Daimler based on the Mark 2 body and beneath its hood it had a factory-looking installed Chrysler hemi. That must have been a real sports sedan for its time. The 420 G was a stretched and embellished Mark X dating back to 1962. I had a Mark X European version with a four speed box and overdrive. I really liked the car but it was big and heavy.

 

[Webserve]

Jack,
Wouldn't it have been nice to have a Mark 2 with Chrysler Hemi Type performance!! The Daimler V-8, however was only a 2.5 litre developing a paltry 140 bhp. It had originally been designedfor the Daimler SP250 -- a small sports car. One of the attrachtive features to the Daimler, however was the fluted grill and fluted plinth.
Personally, I have owned 3 different small saloons as well as an XJ40. With the exception of the XJ40 having A/C during the summer, I have to say I like the 420 the best. With the XJ6 inspired front suspension with power steering and ual power brakes system and the XKE inspired rear IRS with 6 shocks, it is without a doubt the best riding and best handling of the '67 era small saloons. The 4.2 litre XK engine certainly makes a difference as well.

 

[Webserve]

One of the things I don't like about this forum is the fact that it sends the message if you accidentally hit enter (as you would in Word to start a new paragraph). It sends out all the spelling errors and incomplete thoughts before it gets proofed!!
The 420 has a DUAL brakes system -- not "ual" in case you were wondering what the word was.
My other thought about the 420 versus the more modern version saloons is the fact that the 420 is nearly a foot shorter and 4 inches narrower than the XJ40, weighs in at nearly 1000 pounds less and yet has a 4.2 litre engine versus the 3.6 in my XJ40.
AND it was only made for 20 months with total production numbers hovering around 10,000.
What's not to love about the 420??

 

[John S Farrington]

Since this has turned into an interesting session on 60s Jaguar history, I'll continue. I visited the Jaguar plant at Coventry in the 80s and the company was still building the Princess limosine that they aquired rights on with the Daimler name. (they probably wanted to have the mystique of building the carriage that Elizabeth rides in) There, in a hanger-type building in a corner of the plant acreage, was the building site for the Princess production. The cars were virtually assembled and checked out in a single bay assigned to it just like olden times. Even the man with the hand spot paint brush was active. The power plant was a 4.2 litre block with twin Zenith Strombergs just like the series 2 E types and sport sedans. The configuration was selected due to the parade conditions that the limo is usually used in and no sporty demands on its performance. Another attribute was the maintainability of the carburetors vrs. the fuel injection in 3rd world countries that might want a proper car of state or an Arab Emir in the middle of the Sahara. I dont think that the Princess is in production today but the Queen still rides in one.

 

[Webserve]

Jack,
A couple of things. Jag is coming out with a new Daimler version of the XJ8. Starts at $140K.
The princess as you refer to it, was also referred to as the 420 Limo. It was based on the 420G and was the favorite Limo of the Queen Mum until her death. I believe the one she used is now on display at Brown's Lane.
The sports sedans did not have Strombergs that I am aware of. Both my 1967 Jags came with SUs. The 420 came with 2"ers and the 3.4 liter came with 1 1/2 SUs. In fact the original XJ6 S1 came with SUs before they went into Strombergs and then Fuel Injection.

Webserve

 

[John S Farrington]

All series 2 E types have two Zenith Strombergs as originally equipped. Mine is still wearing them since I think the Zenith is a good carburetor (there should be 3 of them like the series 1). Since yours is a 1968, it is what Americans call "one and a half". During that period, the configuration of the E type can best be described as what was on the parts shelf that week. The SUs came in trios and the Zeniths came in duos. Jaguar in those days was a very small company by todays comparison and configuration control was never a problem. The Princess was a Daimler designed body, not a Jaguar 420 G which was a pure Mark X. The Princess is an ungainly looking long limousine with a very high roof line so the adoring audience can see royalty within. If Jaguar had designed it Sir Walter would have fired the designer. I was not aware that the "Queen Mum" had great taste in automobiles but if she selected the 420 G, she certainly did. Please don't confuse the very dowdy Princess with the 420 G. The Daimler for $140K will give the Mercedes Benz "Maybach" (another anachronism to the glorious thirties ((if you will forgive the Nazis riding inside))) a good run for the money. I have ridden in a Maybach and it draws admiring crowds but I bet the Daimler will out class it unless they use the Princess as a pattern. Congratulations Webserve for your interesting contribution to an interesting thread.