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Hey everyone
Bit of a long story, bear with me.
I have a '76 mgb 4-cylinder in otherwise great mechanical condition.
I had a new clutch put in about a year ago. The clutch pads were merely worn out at 90k and were slipping. The mechanic also switched out my old flywheel at that time with one he had in the shop (instead of having the original refinished), as my original had been grooved by the worn clutch pad. He did NOT replace the pilot bushing.
Within a few days, I began to occasionally hear a metallic clicking or tinging sound coming from the clutch box as the drive train took up power. The sound is similar to plucking the tines of a fork, as if some metallic part is straining, then being released suddenly. It didn't happen often, about 1-2% of the time and mostly in the lower gears. It worried me, but it wasn't catastrophic sounding. I had hoped...
A second problem also developed within a week, and went on consistently but randomly throughout the year: turning the engine on, occasionally (about 5% of the time) the clutch would become engaged in the gear I started in (1st or reverse, of course) or if started in neutral, it would stick there and be impossible to shift into ANY gear, do what you might depressing the clutch pedal or trying to force the shift lever. There was NO WAY to get it into or out of gear once the engine was running - nothing. The only solution was to turn the car off again, and when you started it again it may or may not be stuck the same way. Eventually though, let's say after 3-5 times shutting it down and starting it up, it would suddenly miraculously resolve the issue, and become able to shift and drive absolutely perfectly, as if the previous problem never existed. This ONLY happened when the car was off and turned on, never spontaneously 'sticking' while driving or engaged.
Prior to this clutch change none of these sounds/symptoms existed. I contacted the mechanic about it, several times (the car is my daily driver), but without something definitive, he wasn't about to pull the engine for a 'look-see'.
Now, about a month ago, I tried to bleed the clutch (thought I would be smart since I was changing the front pads at the same time). After a fierce battle, I got the clutch tighter than it had ever been. However, afterward 1) the issue with 'sticking' apparently vanished on start up and 2) that previously small, rare clicking or tinging sound coming from the clutch that occurred when the drive train was engaged became SIGNIFICANTLY louder and more common, happening approximately 40% of the time the car was in motion, and now in ALL GEARS.
It sounded as if the springs on the clutch pad were taking up strain and releasing, or skittering around on the flywheel surface etc.
I had had enough.
I returned the car to the mechanic who installed it, and he was able to hear the sound as well, but it seemed a mystery. He re-bled the clutch for me, and even though the sound persisted, we concluded it was likely harmless and I kept driving it.
Three days later, exiting a freeway offramp after driving 70+ for about 15 miles, the clutch suddenly would NOT get out of 4th, and I had to shut the engine off going 50 and glide to a stop to save myself from ramming the cars ahead of me. When off, was able to get it into 1st and drive to a parking lot (it was immediately engaged when the engine turned on).
Towed it to this mechanic's shop. We pulled the engine. The clutch was in 4 pieces, with 2 of the springs popped out, and the metal piece between them ripped out. Catastrophic clutch failure.
The wear on the (destroyed) clutch pads, throwout bearing and flywheel was negligible. The metal frame holding the springs of the clutch itself gave way for some reason, and the flywheel showed no obvious signs of scratching, catching, dragging or grooving as if the metal parts of clutch had snagged on it. In fact, the broken parts of the clutch were INSIDE the clutch housing, not the side facing the flywheel.
Now, Moss agreed this was what appeared defective part, and played ball with us and helped ease the pain of my mechanic and I. He re-installed a new Borg and Beck clutch + new pilot bearing.
Believe it or not, as I drive away from his shop, THE TINGING/CLICKING IS BACK - in every gear - as loud and as common as the symptom had been in the days preceding the catastrophic failure. It's as if these springs or the plate is experiencing such torque or strain that it is either 1) skittering around on the flywheel surface or 2) the springs are experiencing a differential torque that is causing it to grab and release and what I'm hearing are the springs releasing their pressure or ???
Regarding the mechanic, unfortunately my relationship (and confidence) has gone very far south what with the mutual frustrations and etc of the whole situation, so it is unlikely that I'm going to have him involved in the next stage of this at all. Of course he didn't want to admit it may have been something he did or overlooked etc. It became quite heated and dramatic, and because of this he more or less refused to explore anything else that may be causing the issue, he just wanted to install the new clutch/bearing and get me out the door...
I have also heard from other mechanics in the area that they have never heard of such a problem with a clutch install and these symptoms/sounds, and that's why I'm posting here to get a greater range of inputs as to what may be going on. Everyone says that a clutch CAN'T be installed incorrectly, if it was backwards it wouldn't be able to run, and that there are no adjustments that can be made on the clutch mechanism itself which could have been done incorrectly etc.
It is a total mystery, I'm afraid to drive it as it seems very likely to result in another disintegration of the clutch. I have had 2 clutches replaced in 1 year, and now it looks like I have to pull the engine out again for a 'look-see' at what is going on? It's crazy.
Has anyone experienced such a problem before, or have any ideas what else it could be that is causing this sound and leading directly to the clutch exploding?
Thank you!
Robert
Bit of a long story, bear with me.
I have a '76 mgb 4-cylinder in otherwise great mechanical condition.
I had a new clutch put in about a year ago. The clutch pads were merely worn out at 90k and were slipping. The mechanic also switched out my old flywheel at that time with one he had in the shop (instead of having the original refinished), as my original had been grooved by the worn clutch pad. He did NOT replace the pilot bushing.
Within a few days, I began to occasionally hear a metallic clicking or tinging sound coming from the clutch box as the drive train took up power. The sound is similar to plucking the tines of a fork, as if some metallic part is straining, then being released suddenly. It didn't happen often, about 1-2% of the time and mostly in the lower gears. It worried me, but it wasn't catastrophic sounding. I had hoped...
A second problem also developed within a week, and went on consistently but randomly throughout the year: turning the engine on, occasionally (about 5% of the time) the clutch would become engaged in the gear I started in (1st or reverse, of course) or if started in neutral, it would stick there and be impossible to shift into ANY gear, do what you might depressing the clutch pedal or trying to force the shift lever. There was NO WAY to get it into or out of gear once the engine was running - nothing. The only solution was to turn the car off again, and when you started it again it may or may not be stuck the same way. Eventually though, let's say after 3-5 times shutting it down and starting it up, it would suddenly miraculously resolve the issue, and become able to shift and drive absolutely perfectly, as if the previous problem never existed. This ONLY happened when the car was off and turned on, never spontaneously 'sticking' while driving or engaged.
Prior to this clutch change none of these sounds/symptoms existed. I contacted the mechanic about it, several times (the car is my daily driver), but without something definitive, he wasn't about to pull the engine for a 'look-see'.
Now, about a month ago, I tried to bleed the clutch (thought I would be smart since I was changing the front pads at the same time). After a fierce battle, I got the clutch tighter than it had ever been. However, afterward 1) the issue with 'sticking' apparently vanished on start up and 2) that previously small, rare clicking or tinging sound coming from the clutch that occurred when the drive train was engaged became SIGNIFICANTLY louder and more common, happening approximately 40% of the time the car was in motion, and now in ALL GEARS.
It sounded as if the springs on the clutch pad were taking up strain and releasing, or skittering around on the flywheel surface etc.
I had had enough.
I returned the car to the mechanic who installed it, and he was able to hear the sound as well, but it seemed a mystery. He re-bled the clutch for me, and even though the sound persisted, we concluded it was likely harmless and I kept driving it.
Three days later, exiting a freeway offramp after driving 70+ for about 15 miles, the clutch suddenly would NOT get out of 4th, and I had to shut the engine off going 50 and glide to a stop to save myself from ramming the cars ahead of me. When off, was able to get it into 1st and drive to a parking lot (it was immediately engaged when the engine turned on).
Towed it to this mechanic's shop. We pulled the engine. The clutch was in 4 pieces, with 2 of the springs popped out, and the metal piece between them ripped out. Catastrophic clutch failure.
The wear on the (destroyed) clutch pads, throwout bearing and flywheel was negligible. The metal frame holding the springs of the clutch itself gave way for some reason, and the flywheel showed no obvious signs of scratching, catching, dragging or grooving as if the metal parts of clutch had snagged on it. In fact, the broken parts of the clutch were INSIDE the clutch housing, not the side facing the flywheel.
Now, Moss agreed this was what appeared defective part, and played ball with us and helped ease the pain of my mechanic and I. He re-installed a new Borg and Beck clutch + new pilot bearing.
Believe it or not, as I drive away from his shop, THE TINGING/CLICKING IS BACK - in every gear - as loud and as common as the symptom had been in the days preceding the catastrophic failure. It's as if these springs or the plate is experiencing such torque or strain that it is either 1) skittering around on the flywheel surface or 2) the springs are experiencing a differential torque that is causing it to grab and release and what I'm hearing are the springs releasing their pressure or ???
Regarding the mechanic, unfortunately my relationship (and confidence) has gone very far south what with the mutual frustrations and etc of the whole situation, so it is unlikely that I'm going to have him involved in the next stage of this at all. Of course he didn't want to admit it may have been something he did or overlooked etc. It became quite heated and dramatic, and because of this he more or less refused to explore anything else that may be causing the issue, he just wanted to install the new clutch/bearing and get me out the door...
I have also heard from other mechanics in the area that they have never heard of such a problem with a clutch install and these symptoms/sounds, and that's why I'm posting here to get a greater range of inputs as to what may be going on. Everyone says that a clutch CAN'T be installed incorrectly, if it was backwards it wouldn't be able to run, and that there are no adjustments that can be made on the clutch mechanism itself which could have been done incorrectly etc.
It is a total mystery, I'm afraid to drive it as it seems very likely to result in another disintegration of the clutch. I have had 2 clutches replaced in 1 year, and now it looks like I have to pull the engine out again for a 'look-see' at what is going on? It's crazy.
Has anyone experienced such a problem before, or have any ideas what else it could be that is causing this sound and leading directly to the clutch exploding?
Thank you!
Robert
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