Clutch Linkage

[Michael Oritt]

I have a Toyota transmission with a BJ clutch in my 100. Lately I have noticed that unless I depress the clutch pedal all the way to the floor the clutch will not fully disengage and with the transmission in first gear the car will v-e-r-y slowly creep ahead.

Hydraulics seem to be in order and the pedal feels okay though I have not yet bled the system. I have read that sometimes this condition is due to wear in the clutch linkage with some of the holes egging out, thus causing less activation of the clutch rod.

Before I tear apart the interior to pull the tunnel I thought I would tap into the forum's wisdom--Any thoughts and suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

If you still have a 100's original mechanical linkage there are several areas where wear 'slop' can occur. IIRC--haven't checked mine lately--there is a threaded shaft that can be adjusted to take up the slop. If the wear is too great, DWM has a nifty-looking upgraded replacement but, unfortunately, the unit's web page is borked. Part# CCLU123; if you're interested I can grab a photo from the catalog.

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[John Turney]

You can check the clevis pin on the pedal without pulling the tunnel. You may also be able to lift the car and see the slave cylinder one from underneath.

 

[BoyRacer]

I would first bleed the system. I had the same problem with my '76 Alfa spyder a few years ago. Bled the system and got a much better pedal.

 

[Michael Oritt]

I would first bleed the system. I had the same problem with my '76 Alfa spyder a few years ago. Bled the system and got a much better pedal.

Richard--

I was under the car this morning and since none of the linkage is accessible with the transmission in the car bleeding the system is the only hope I have short of removal. I'll report back ASAP.

 

[BoyRacer]

This may offend some. But here it goes. When I get my BN1 back from the stripper I am going to install a 3000 swing pedal assembly and master cylinders. Kilmartin sells the firewall sheet metal and I have that.
I purchased an engine plate from Pete Delaney (Healey 5 Speed) so I can bolt up any BN4 to BJ8 transmission or Smitty/Healey 5 Speed bellhousing. Much less expensive than trying to find and buy a BN2 bellhousing.
One problem with doing this is that it will reduce the clearance for the rear carburetor air cleaner on the 4 cylinder engine. The solution is to cut down the pedal assembly and the firewall box but this necessitates cutting off the tops of the pedals where the return spring is attached. The solution is to purchase those specail return springs from Denis Welch. Or purchase the DW pedal box that is already cut down and comes with those springs.

 

[Michael Oritt]

Today I checked for air in the line and there was none. However I found a bit of play in the linkage where the end of the clutch pedal clamps onto the actuator rod. Because of the rod's relatively small diameter I'm afraid to drill it out enough to put in a steel bushing so I may simply enlarge the hole enough so I can go from the present SAE bolt to the next size up in metric.

There's also a bit of play between the slave cylinder output shaft and the clutch throwout arm and perhaps the end of the shaft has worn down, decreasing the arm's motion. However before I do anything I'm going to pull the tunnel to get a better view of the linkage as I work the pedal.

More later....

 

[BobHaskell]

Michael,
At the slave cylinder end, you will probably find that the clevis pin is worn and/or the hole in the output shaft is enlarged.

 

[Michael Oritt]

This morning, while a friend was working the clutch pedal, I went under the car and saw that notwithstanding my last post the clutch arm is travelling to its full extent and is landing on the back of the square hole in the bell housing--meaning that the problem is internal and I cannot avoid pulling the transmission. Once inside I'll probably find just what Bob Haskell mentions in his last post, and I may as well replace the clutch disc as I installed it--a diaphragm model from a BJ8--in 2003 and it probably has 50-60K miles on it.

Today's task will be removing the transmission cover (a modified Moss 100-6 FG tunnel) and it looks like the carpeting and padding, some of which is glued in place, will be sacrificed in the process, but it too is 20 years old, so it owes me little or nothing.

Film at 11....

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Maybe your graphite release 'bearing'--if you have one--wore out prematurely. Heard a rumor a few years back there were some poor quality ones being sold (quelle surprise).

 

[Michael Oritt]

I removed the interior today which took me about three hours working alone. The most difficult part was removing the carpeting and padding which I had contact-cemented in place after having first screwed down the tunnel. Twenty years later and it was still a bitch to get off. (Note to self: The next time you install something think about having to uninstall it.). It will probably not be until this weekend when I remove the transmission.

BTW the Toyota 5-speed box has the steel sandwich and though I am not certain I believe that means it is a W58. Does anybody know if this is a definitive point of ID?

 

[BoyRacer]

Michael,

I checked 3 of my Toyota transmissions. My two W59s have the steel sandwich plate. The one, that I believe is a W58 out of a Supra, has the aluminum sandwich plate.

 

[Michael Oritt]

My transmission definitely has a steel plate--I checked with a magnet. Does that make it a W59?

 

[roscoe]

No. I believe W58s came with both. Earlier ones were aluminum and later were steel. From my research, the only way you can be sure of what WXX box you have is to check the gear ratios. This should take a half hour job once the gearbox is out and you can turn the input shaft and count revolutions of the output shaft. I press fitted a piece of PVC pipe with an elbow on the end to the input shaft and made a crank and just put a paint mark on the output shaft. The ratios for all the W series boxes are all over the internet.
I'm really not sure why people care which sandwich plate they have for our application, unless it had been driven hard in a more powerful vehicle. The steel sandwich plate was introduced along with some larger bearings, modified gears and I think different synchro rings because they had some issues with aluminum plates cracking and early bearings but I suspect that was due to way more torque being applied than we have available. If you have steel, that's good; if you have aluminum you'll probably never know the diff.

 

[BobHaskell]

I removed the interior today which took me about three hours working alone. The most difficult part was removing the carpeting and padding which I had contact-cemented in place after having first screwed down the tunnel. Twenty years later and it was still a bitch to get off. (Note to self: The next time you install something think about having to uninstall it.). It will probably not be until this weekend when I remove the transmission.

BTW the Toyota 5-speed box has the steel sandwich and though I am not certain I believe that means it is a W58. Does anybody know if this is a definitive point of ID?

Michael,

You need a clutch bleeder extension?

 

[Michael Oritt]

Bob--

Thanks but I don't need an extension. When I fabbed the tunnel I created a small removable "door" held in place by two self-tapping screws and when i remove it I have easy access to the bleed nipple. Also, at Smitty's suggestion I cut the head off the top bolt that secures the secondary cylinder to the bell housing, making it into a locator pin. If for any reason I need to remove the cylinder I only need to remove the bottom bolt which is easily accessible either through the door or from under the car.

 

[Michael Oritt]

No. I believe W58s came with both. Earlier ones were aluminum and later were steel. From my research, the only way you can be sure of what WXX box you have is to check the gear ratios. This should take a half hour job once the gearbox is out and you can turn the input shaft and count revolutions of the output shaft. I press fitted a piece of PVC pipe with an elbow on the end to the input shaft and made a crank and just put a paint mark on the output shaft. The ratios for all the W series boxes are all over the internet.
I'm really not sure why people care which sandwich plate they have for our application, unless it had been driven hard in a more powerful vehicle. The steel sandwich plate was introduced along with some larger bearings, modified gears and I think different synchro rings because they had some issues with aluminum plates cracking and early bearings but I suspect that was due to way more torque being applied than we have available. If you have steel, that's good; if you have aluminum you'll probably never know the diff.

Roscoe--

These transmissions were used in some powerful applications including turbocharged Z-cars and supposedly some boxes with all-A failed. However I'll agree that with our relatively lower powered Healeys there would not be an issue.

 

[glemon]

Michael, when you get it all fixed and get to the putting it back together part. This set is for a Triumph, don't know if there is equivalent for Healey, but after installed they are pretty much invisible from the outside, as the outer retaining ring (black part with three spikes) gets pushed into carpet. After years of glued, screwed, velcroed down carpet, finally did it right on the last car, and very glad I did. > 228-178 CARPET RING SET | Moss Motors <

P.S. Twenty years without having to service anything in the tunnel is pretty impressive.

 

[Michael Oritt]

Michael, when you get it all fixed and get to the putting it back together part. This set is for a Triumph, don't know if there is equivalent for Healey, but after installed they are pretty much invisible from the outside, as the outer retaining ring (black part with three spikes) gets pushed into carpet. After years of glued, screwed, velcroed down carpet, finally did it right on the last car, and very glad I did. > 228-178 CARPET RING SET | Moss Motors <

P.S. Twenty years without having to service anything in the tunnel is pretty impressive.

Greg--

Good idea. I'm 79 and I doubt I will be around for another twenty but my grandson is 6 and if I make it another ten I will give him the car, assuming he wants it.

 

[Michael Oritt]

We removed the transmission this morning and on examining the clutch linkage everything seemed okay and also there did not appear to be much wear on the throwout bearing, so we removed the clutch cover and disk. One of the springs in the disk was missing and the remaining ones appeared to be worn and not sitting correctly in the disk. Also, one of the balls in the pilot bearing was missing and the bearing itself was not square in the flywheel. I then removed the clutch and flywheel. The inner part of the pilot bearing was missing and we surmised that when it came apart it caused the damage to the clutch disk. In any case everything is now removed and I will order a new pilot bearing, disk and throwout bearing Monday.

I have a question about the flywheel but rather than including it in this post I will start a new topic.