TR2/3/3A TR3A Steering Gearbox

[BJ8Healeys]

Hello, Triumph fans!

My usual home is the Healeys forum, but I am working on a TR3A for a friend, trying to fix a leak in the steering gearbox. I am familiar with the similar boxes in Healeys so I expected to find an "olive" compression fitting behind the nut at the front of the box.
The nut turned, but would not unscrew, forcing me to remove the front plate. I found no olive at all, but the nut is captive to the plate. Is this correct? If so, how is the long stator tube sealed to the box at the front? As I found it, the stator tube could easily be pushed in and out by hand. The nut was sealed with silicone around the outside of the front plate, but that can't be right.


Thanks,
Steve Byers
Havelock, NC

 

[CJD]

You are correct, there should be an olive. The threads are affixed to the gearbox end plate, the stator goes through the threaded plate, olive next, then the nut to lock and seal the stator.

It sounds like some PO left off the olive and then stripped the nut trying to seal the leak. The good news, since the nut is brass, it likely stripped instead of the end plate threads, so all you should need is a new nut and olive.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

Thanks for your response, CJD. Have a look at the photos.
It appears to me that the threads that mate with the brass nut are not integral with the front plate, but are on a fitting that is staked into the plate. I can't remove the nut because the fitting turns with the nut. There is not much available on the inside of the plate to grab hold of to keep it from turning, and I don't want to damage the fitting (if that's what it is). I tried heating the nut with a propane torch, but still can't get the nut to turn independently of the threads it mates with.

Moss says the front plate is N/A.

Steve Byers
Havelock, NC

 

[CJD]

That's a tough one.

If you can't peen the fitting from the back side of the plate, you may have to braze it to hold and seal it to the plate. You may be able to stake it using a center punch...you'll still have to seal it so you don't have a leak when you're done.

Worst case, I am sure someone, like Marv, will have a second hand end plate...

 

[TR3driver]

Another possibility is to clean it up thoroughly, then lay a bead of penetrating grade Loctite around the joint. Let that harden and try again.

Yet another approach would be to take an expanding lead anchor and expand it inside the threaded piece.

If you do braze, you're going to have to file or machine the plate back to flat.

Overall, might be easier to just look for a used plate. Marv should be along soon, or you could try someplace like Ted Schumacher https://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/
Mark Macy https://macysgarage.com/myweb6/Parts/parts.htm
or Triumph Rescue https://www.triumphrescue.com/

There are lots of others, those are just the first ones that come to my mind.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

I can braze the fitting on the backside of the plate, if that's what it takes. However, again, I don't want to damage something that is going to be totally N/A. If anyone has a plate available, please let me know. I was trying to get this done by the weekend because the owner is registered for a local car show. I may have to button it up without any lubricant in the steering box and deal with it later. Hate to do that, for it'll be a 40-mile roundtrip drive to the show.

 

[TR4nut]

Yeah, this is one part I'd suggest just trashing and getting a 2nd hand one. Long term even if you get it fixed up you probably run the risk of a leak anyway. Pretty sure I have a spare one if Marv doesn't chime in shortly - he's closer! PM me if you need to and I'll start hunting.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

Another possibility is to clean it up thoroughly, then lay a bead of penetrating grade Loctite around the joint. Let that harden and try again.

Yet another approach would be to take an expanding lead anchor and expand it inside the threaded piece.

If you do braze, you're going to have to file or machine the plate back to flat.

Overall, might be easier to just look for a used plate. Marv should be along soon, or you could try someplace like Ted Schumacher https://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/
Mark Macy https://macysgarage.com/myweb6/Parts/parts.htm
or Triumph Rescue https://www.triumphrescue.com/

There are lots of others, those are just the first ones that come to my mind.

Thanks for the suggestions, Randall. If I braze it, I can flatten it again with a Dremel tool. I take it that everyone is agreed that the nut is just seized to the fitting? The olive is no there at all. The nut and olive are available, so I could possibly cut the nut off while avoiding damaging the threads on the fitting as a last resort. I have some doubt that the Loc-Tite approach would work. The nut is stuck on there pretty good. Before I go any further with this, I will check out the sources you mention for another plate.

 

[TR3driver]

Just for the weekend, you could probably pull the stator tube down until it is no longer engaged with the control head, and seal the joint up with silicone RTV again.

PS, I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in a new nut and/or compression sleeve fitting either. The original compression sleeve was flat on one side plus somewhat longer than modern sleeves. And while some modern compression nuts will grab the old threads, most new ones it seems are slightly too large and slip (or strip easily).

 

[TR4nut]

I don't think brazing or mig welding even would be a problem there as long as you don't distort beyond the repair area - that is where it needs to be flat to get the end float set properly for the steering shaft/worm gear. Certainly worth a try. And if so I'd suggest getting it in place again then get a little more aggressive on the nut and see if you can back it off - being brass it should move without breaking a weld area I would think.

 

[TR3driver]

If I braze it, I can flatten it again with a Dremel tool.

If you can keep it flat to within .002" or so over that long distance with a Dremel tool, then your hands are a whole steadier than mine are!

 

[TR3driver]

Also needs to be flat where it seals to the box; the gasket will take up a little distortion but not much. And I'm thinking that just bringing the center up to brazing temperature is likely to warp the whole piece; but I could be wrong.

 

[TR4nut]

Also needs to be flat where it seals to the box; the gasket will take up a little distortion but not much. And I'm thinking that just bringing the center up to brazing temperature is likely to warp the whole piece; but I could be wrong.

What do you think of just a hit with a Mig weld? I was thinking you'd have less heat to deal with.

 

[TR4nut]

Related to this, if the olive is missing I'm not clear how that stator tube stayed fixed in place, wouldn't it try to rotate with the steering wheel? If you fix this plate, and get an olive, the tube will be fixed in place - if the control head is old just make sure it still rotates otherwise you might break the stator tube or something else.

 

[CJD]

It's a pretty thick piece, so I don't think warpage would be too much. Sandpaper on a flat surface should be enough to true it back up if it does warp.

If it were mine, I think I'd try the easy route first and try to stake it with a punch...then get more aggressive if that doesn't hold it.

 

[TR3driver]

What do you think of just a hit with a Mig weld? I was thinking you'd have less heat to deal with.

Just a couple of tack welds might be OK, but I'm thinking you might still get oil seeping through the rest of the joint.

I figure the stator tube was turning, that's why the silicone sealer didn't work. Not strong enough to hold the tube against the cancelling mechanism in the control head.

Good point about the control head though. I figure it binding is why so many stator tubes seem to break in service. I clean and lube mine every decade or so and haven't broken a stator tube yet. (knock on wood)

But right now, Steve is wondering WTF he has gotten himself into!

 

[bobhustead]

Try putting a straight fluted easy-out in from the back side of the plate to hold the threaded nipple. Bob

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

Steve, I wish I were closer because I happen to have several spare plates. No extra olives but maybe a nut. If you need one, let me know.

Did you know the week and year are stamped on the plate -often hard to find under all that grime and paint.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

Steve, I wish I were closer because I happen to have several spare plates. No extra olives but maybe a nut. If you need one, let me know.

Did you know the week and year are stamped on the plate -often hard to find under all that grime and paint.

Thanks, Knucklehead. There isn't any urgency now because the owner has decided not to attend the show this weekend. I'm leaving next Wednesday for the Healey Southeastern Classic in Florida so I wouldn't be able to install it soon anyway. I believe Moss has the olive and the nut. How much for one of your spare plates?
The date stamped on "my" plate is 3 58 (from memory. It might be 3__ 58).

 

[LarryK]

Get a nut splitter and split the brass nut and then get the tube and olive and use new brass nut. The brass nut probably is galled on the steel threads, if you split and replace, you won't have same problem later!