TR2/3/3A TR3A Conversion to Rack-&-Pinion Steering

[60TR3A]

Moss sells a conversion kit that is expensive and forces one to relocate horn and turn signals to under-dash switches which I'm not interested in doing. Is there any other way to speed up steering from 3.5 turns lock-to-lock to 2.5 and make sawing the wheel a little less muscular? Under way it is no problem but when parking and at a standstill, turning those wheels is a big chore and they don't move very much for all the effort involved. Any suggestions?

 

[TR4nut]

No cheap things to do, though I know some folks in the UK have experimented with power assist. Also people have home built rack and pinion setups.

To me though its a little confusing what you are looking for - less turning and less effort? Those two don't seem to go together.

 

[60TR3A]

First choice: fewer turns; second choice: less effort. If both are mutually exclusive, go back to first choice.

 

[Gordon_Dedrick]

I have a 59 3A that I converted to the Moss rack and pinion set-up a couple of years ago. While the steering effort is very much easier, I regret in some ways not having the turn and horn controls the on the steering wheel.
You can fit a part from BASTUK in Germany that restores the trafficator controls on the steering column (part L97Btr3) for about 150 euro. So far I have resisted the urge mainly because the only installation instructions I could find were in German!
For the price of the rack set up you can have your steering box rebuilt by the Roadster Factory or Mark Macy and maintain the originality and MOST of the ease in steering effort of the rack.
In the end......your decision.
Gordon

 

[60TR3A]

Thanks, Gordon. I don't want to spend $1500+ just for the kit and then add in the cost of labor as it isn't that important to me, plus the negatives of the horn and turn indicator relocation are a real turn-off, as you've learned the hard way. I'm getting better at pulling out of my garage and using all the space available to do it in one go and not having to back up twice. It'd be nice to reduce the number of turns and effort but if I lived with it as a teenager, I can learn to live with it as a 60-something. I need the exercise, anyway!

 

[Geo Hahn]

FWIW -- Bob Schaller in one of his BS books showed a slip ring arrangement to allow use of the horn button on an R&P conversion:

But really I find the steering of the TR3A to be different from the TR4 R&P but not at all a bother. Of course it will help to have a properly adjusted steering box and no extra play in the linkage and lots of air in the front tires.

 

[vivdownunder]

Cheapest thing to help heavy steering is put more air in the tires. Also, low tire tread leads to heavier steering.

Next check the steering box is full of oil, and consider replacing the old style rubber fulcrum pins on the steering cross shaft with aftermarket Delrin pins.

With everthing to original tolerance, the TR steering isn't that bad, notwithstanding it was designed for crossply tires.

Rack and pinion is a mixed bag, with many disappointed at the bump steer effect. It's difficult to get the rack high enough to eliminate that problem.

For a home R & P conversion, the rack from a Ford Escort Mk2 works best, being quite narrow.

Viv.

 

[Got_All_4]

A couple of years ago I had to do something with the steering rack in my 60 TR3A. It had been getting progressively worse over the 25 years I've been driving it. You kind'a forget over that span of years how good the steering really was . Like you I looked at getting a rack and pinion steering set up. The first one I had ever seen was at the Roadster Factory Party back in the 90's. There was a older fellow that was a retired engineer form Ford. He figured out using a steering rack from I think from a Pinto or a Mustang. It looked great and even the turn signals and horn were on the steering wheel. I was hooked on doing it to my car. But keeping it original was more important to me.

Back to what I recently did. I was able to source a nice used TR3 worm gear as there were no new ones out there at the time. Also I didn't have 6 months + to send it to a LBC re-builder. So with installing new bearings, properly shimming everything up and new gear lube I never thought TR3 steering could be so smooth and precise. I agree with Gordan to get your rack professionally rebuilt especially if it's worn out. That might make all the difference. However it's still going to take some effort at parking but that's what that big steering wheel is for !

 

[glemon]

We have three guys in our club that have done TR3 rack and pinion conversions. I believe the bits used include a TR7 rack and a TR4-6 stearing shaft, you need some u-joints in it I am pretty sure, I helped on one of the installs, but mostly dumb labor (hold this here while I start this nut, etc.)

I do know all three are VERY happy with the tesults, and I believe the results are steering that is both lighter and quicker. I know it is lighter, as I have driven a couple of the before and after cars.

 

[60TR3A]

Of course it will help to have a properly adjusted steering box and no extra play in the linkage and lots of air in the front tires.

Good thought, Geo. I have had the car all of one week and have yet to check tire pressures. Not sure what they should be but will see if I can find out (or wait a few minutes and get my answer right here!)

 

[60TR3A]

I think I should first make certain my tires are properly inflated and that my rack is in good shape and full of the correct lube. My mechanic has yet to do anything on the car other than admire it so one of the things he will look at closely will be the steering. Chances are, I won't need to do any conversion and small fixes will probably make it much more livable. Thanks, everyone!

 

[lbcs_r_fun]

No cheap things to do, though I know some folks in the UK have experimented with power assist. Also people have home built rack and pinion setups.

To me though its a little confusing what you are looking for - less turning and less effort? Those two don't seem to go together.

Power assist can and have been done for TR's and there are a couple of options:

hydraulic assist: https://www.powersteeringforclassiccars.co.uk/

electric/servo: https://www.ezpowersteering.nl/index.php?p=3&a=OTc=

 

[Gordon_Dedrick]

Right after I got my 3 back from the rack rebuild I couldn't wait to take her out for a run. Was VERY disappointed untill I checked the tire pressures. Turns out they were way off. Made all the difference in the world. I keep trying to tell myself to check the simple stuff first but never seem to! Try 32 lbs in all 4 to start.
Gordon

 

[TR3driver]

Is there any other way to speed up steering from 3.5 turns lock-to-lock to 2.5 and make sawing the wheel a little less muscular?

Do a proper rebuild on the stock steering box. When I finally broke down and did mine, I was amazed at the result; and the process wasn't nearly as hard as I had envisioned.

BTW, the stock setup is 2.25 turns lock-to-lock, which is part of the reason it's kind of stiff. My TR3 didn't turn out as well the first time as the 3A did (probably because I felt the box was good enough and didn't replace the bushing & seal), but I can still park with one hand.

Although part of the trick is that I learned to drive on a full size car with manual steering. One of the lessons learned is to not try to turn the wheel with the car absolutely still. Letting it roll just a few inches will make it much easier to turn the wheel.

And as noted, running more air in the tires will help, too. Also seems to improve handling, so it's win-win.

PS, Synthetic GL5 gear oil seems to work better in the steering box.

 

[lbcs_r_fun]

Here's another reference you may want to check: Electric power steering

T

 

[60TR3A]

Well, due to the fact that my other 2 cars are equipped with tire-pressure monitors, I seem to have misplaced my pressure gauge but did find a gauge that measures in bars, not pounds per square inch. Long story short, my tires measure around 1.7 bars (+/-) and that means only about 24 pounds per square inch so I need air in my tires! Maybe with more air I won't have to work so hard. I'll see if my electric compressor has enough oomph to fill the tires as I've just used it in the past to fill bicycle tires which was a strain on it so not sure it can fill car tires but soon shall see. It is blistering hot outside so I'll wait until dusk when the sun is low to take her out and test the steering once I get some air in my tires. Might be all I need. Stay tuned...

 

[Twosheds]

TR3s came with Armstrong power steering as stsndard equipment.

 

[bnw]

My project 57 came with a R&P installed. I scrapped it for the OE steering because I wanted to be able to hand crank the car. I think that's one of the neatest features on a three especially since the OE starter was junk when new.

 

[60TR3A]

I remember having a crank back in the '60's on my TR3A but my new car doesn't have one. I think I need to find one and buy it, though using a crank has its own dangers and can break your wrist or hand! I could have used it yesterday when I sprayed "belt ease" to stop the belt from squealing but could only hit a small spot and would love to have been able to turn it with a crank to spray the entire belt.
Filled the tires but haven't had a chance to compare reversing out of the garage yet. As soon as I do, I'll let you guys know if it was just low tire pressure or if it's still too hard to steer when parking. Might still need the rack overhauled. We'll see...

 

[vivdownunder]

Be careful with the crank handle - a lot of radiators have been re-cored without the through hole.

Popular because it increases volume through the core to help engine cooling.

Viv.