Newbie Bugeye Sprite Mk1 owner looking for some advice

[AHRMA361]

Hello! My name is Mike and am really glad I found this forum!

On a bit of a whim and to help a family out, I purchased a titled 1961 AN5L Sprite (believe it is actually a 1960 but have read that was pretty normal BITD) from a 90 year old man. He had bought it with big intentions to restore it but it never happened and his current health situation required him to sell it. His dementia prevented him from giving much history on the car.

I know relatively nothing about British cars other than helping my father restore a MG Midget when I was a kid. As I go through the car, I am starting to think I have bit off more than I can chew but wanted to get some advice on what the members here think about the amount of work and expense it would be to fix it.

It is an interesting car in that it has a 1275cc engine in it with a Holley carb, header, disc brakes, electronic ignition and a Delco alternator conversion. It also has a fiberglass bonnet fitted that tilts forward. Came with the original carbs and some other spares.


So far the good: I did get it started using an auxiliary fuel tank and it did not puff even a hint of smoke. Pretty obvious the carb needs rebuilt. No way to try and drive it as yet with the aux tank and the clutch master seems to be inoperable. Has a soft top on it with the side curtains (two sets of curtains actually). Blower motor, wipers, lights etc. all work.


So far the bad: Calipers were in a box (assume that they were stuck and removed to be able to roll the car around), no interior at all, quite a bit of what I would call "less-than professional" bodywork and rust repair. Was rewired by someone that hit the lottery and bought all the yellow wire in the world to rewire various systems. It has had patches welded in various places on the floor and interior.

I have attached one photo, can post more if anyone wants to see specific parts of the car. Just really looking for some educated advice on whether it appears to be a candidate for a resto effort on some level or not. I restore old motorcycles for the most part and am very mechanically inclined. Be brutally honest as needed in your replies, I am over 50 and have thick skin!

Thanks for the input. Mike

 

[smaceng]

All cars can be brought back to life, it just depends on what you want it to look like and how much money you have.
The BEs (bugeyes) have gone up in value, and have become very collectible. The main enemy is rust. Some of the upgrades are very desirable, such as the 1275 engine, electronic ignition, alternator, and disk brakes. Those that are not so desirable are the Holley carbs and the fiberglass hood.
I would suggest that you carefully look the car over for rust. Then get the engine running, and fix the brakes and make it safe. Maybe even get it registered. At that stage you can figure out what works and what does not. Moss Motors is a good supplier and their web site can provide costs for parts, such as a new wiring harness. Other parts are just hard to find, such as seats, gauges, etc. Good luck and keep us informed as to how you are doing. I have personally restored one BE from the ground up to a show winner......60FROG.
Scott in CA

 

[Gerard]

Hi Mike,

Congrats and welcome...

I suggest you begin by getting the engine running and getting the brakes functional. On the subject of brakes, almost all disc brake conversions on these cars were done incorrectly, partially because parts will bolt up even if they are the wrong ones, and secondly from lack of availability for years of the correct master cylinder. Calipers can be rebuilt, but might be cheaper to buy new ones. The rear wheel cylinders, if original, are aluminum with a steel piston. You know what happens when you combine steel and aluminum in a corrosive environment, so plan on new ones too. Plan on replacing the 3 flex lines for the brakes. These collapse internally and restrict or even block fluid passage, and should be replaced after 10 years or so or anytime you see any cracks in the rubber. The drum brake master cylinder is a 7/8" bore, but for disc brakes you really should have a 3/4" bore. That is how BMC put them together. You can get a broader picture by checking my tech article on the subject. I still supply these conversions, and I can also supply you with other brake parts of you are interested.

https://gerardsgarage.com/Garage/Tech/DbrakeUg.htm

You should inspect the rear hubs and axles for leaks, as that is a pretty common problem as well. Wheel bearings too. Correcting those things is fairly easy, and if tackled at the same time you are doing the brakes, it'll save you some time and extra work. I have a tech article on doing that as well. Explore my tech section for that and other insights into the car.

I would check the gearbox and see if the case is smooth or ribbed. The 1275 would have been paired with a ribbed version, but the smooth case would be what was original to the car. The smooth cases are often mated with the later engines, but again, frequently with mismatched parts.

Needless to say, change all the fluids, flush the gas tank and clean out the carbs. You probably won't have any oil pressure from it sitting so long, but that's easily remedied by removing the banjo bolt from the top of the line going from the oil filter head to the block, and squirting a few ounces of oil into the block. This will help prime the oil pump. Before you crank or start it, I would also remove the plugs, and if the engine can be turned by hand, squirt a little Marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder. I would turn the crank and repeat every couple days with the pistons in new positions.

Once you get the car driveable, you can assess how much you like driving it and how far you want to pursue cosmetic issues, as well as what else it may require mechanically (suspension, gearbox, etc.)

Last, but not least, get your hands on a shop manual. The Bentley version is the best as it's the same as the factory one. Haynes are full of errors and will get you off in the wrong direction at times.

That should keep you busy for a while...

 

[Rut]

Mike,
Welcome to the forum! Lots of good advice so far and since you're mechanically inclined this car should be no problem for you. Buy a Bentley workshop manual and get the Bugeye running and stopping and go from there...post plenty of pictures and ask any questions no matter how basic.
Enjoy, Rut

 

[nomad]

Just wanted to add to all the good advise that the interior's were minimal and don't have to be done to concourse standard. If you are looking for factory seats the seats from the mk2 sprites or mk3 midgets are more comfortable than original. Later seats will fit but the more padded later seats kinda limit cabin room which is pretty tight any way.
[I have a set of those seats but will only part with them on a trade deal for your lathe!]

Kurt.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Who has a copy of the Bringing A Spridget Back to Life Checklist / Link for Mike. That's a start.

Mike,
These cars are not all that hard to bring back and even more so a ton of fun to drive. It all depend on your ultimate plans for the car. Show / Concours quality doesn't come cheap but almost all of the parts are readily available. I purchased a Bugeye in boxes that was taken apart 35 years ago to have metal welded in to cure tinworm / rear clip issues and it never got put back together. It's ready to go on a rotisserie so I can take it upside down to clean and paint the bottom and do some additional welding work. New brake lines to be installed while on the rotisserie. Upgrades to include: 1275, 5 Speed Kit, Disc Brakes, New Interior, Front Tilt Bonnet, new Wiring harness, Speedhut GPS Speedo and Tach, and a whole lot of other goodies are planned. it just takes time to get it done. Working full time still is interfering with time I can work on this project. I want to have on rotisserie and rolled out and pressure washed in he next few weeks so I can do lots of other projects in the garage as temps allow this winter.

Welding and Bodywork as time allows this Fall
Seats and Dash work in the basement when it gets too cold in the garage.

Take a looks at the Bringing A Spridget Back to Life List. That is your Step by Step Project Plan to what it will take to get it done.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Just realized that is a really old picture. Current state is a totally stripped front end. I count only 12 screws / bolts that could be removed and all of those involve door hinges and latches. Everything else is off of the car.

 

[JPSmit]

Welcome, you are in the right plac and while you likely already know this you are basically looking at the same car as you and your father restored so you do have experience.

 

[AN5Sprite]

Congrats!
Can we see a pic of the Holley carb?
My advice:
1. Buy a Bentley manual and a copy of the "Horler book".
2. Befriend someone who's roughly 4' tall and 80lbs. Sooner for later you'll need them to go deep into the "boot".

 

[AHRMA361]

Thanks for all the great feedback and info! Grateful you took your time to post on this thread!

smaceng - I figured the front end was a minus. Have the orig. carbs though!
Gerard - Awesome resource your site is! I will spend a lot of time there! Gearbox is ribbed. Def. wrong M/C though. Thanks for the heads up.
Rut - Just have a Haynes manual, will look into a Bentley. (thought Bentley was just an expensive car, not a repair manual!)
nomad - Appreciate the interior info! Glad there are options.
Gruber - Thanks to a fellow Buckeye for your info. Lots of work and dedication on your car!
AN5Sprite - Here is a pic of the Holley and intake. I added a few more of the car as well. I have a 14 y/o daughter that will fit quite nicely in the boot as needed! Ha ha!

Missing a grill as well. The Honda has tank on the windshield is my temp. solution to get gas to the carb!

It appears from other pictures I have seen online and in this forum, I am missing the little bumpers and the marker lights were relocated???

 

[AHRMA361]

So I keep looking over this car to get to know it better. Another thing I noticed looking in the oil fill neck on the valve cover. Does this look stock? Looks like anodized retainers and painted springs?

This is cast into the intake manifold. PIERCE. It is aluminum. Any info as to it's origin?

 

[Boink]

Odd how those "bumperettes" were removed and the lower lights put in that general area.

 

[SaxMan]

Welcome!

Your BE does seem to have acquired some interesting upgrades along the way. The other great thing about the BE is that the parts availability is amazing...far greater than anyone who does not an one could possibly fathom. As everyone has said, these cars are very restorable, even if you don't possess an incredible skill sit for working on cars. I'm at the other end of the Sprite spectrum, a '69 Mark IV. Prior to owning this car, the most I ever did was change the oil. I now know this car inside out and an approach almost any repair without too much trepidation...especially with all the help and advice everyone on this forum has given me. These guys really "have your back" when it comes to helping you get a Sprite on the road and keep it there.

 

[nomad]

Pierce makes lots of manifolds so that one is common. Are you sure it has a Holley and not a Weber downdraft carb?? They look a lot alike and the usual set up has a Weber. General consensus is that the stock SU's are a better choice. Most people who are not familiar with them find them confusing but once one gets to know them you realize what gem's they are.

Looks like your engine may have some upgrades!

Kurt.

 

[AN5Sprite]

It appears from other pictures I have seen online and in this forum, I am missing the little bumpers and the marker lights were relocated???

Yes. It looks to me like there's some serious filler built up back there...See, it's already time to send the spelunker in!

 

[Gerard]

The carb looks to be a Weber 32/36 DGEV with an automatic choice. Mike Pierce is the West Coast Weber distributor and also the developer/maker of the aluminum heads you see sold these days. He sells the manifold and many other Weber and non-Weber accessories. I actually bought one of my Bugeyes from him in the mid-90's (the one I'm still working on, and the one that was purchased to replace the one I had for 30 years) He's just about an hour south of me.

https://www.piercemanifolds.com
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/22680.070.htm

Your rear signal lamps were relocated; why someone would bother to go the the trouble to move them 6" over is beyond me!

I'd be interested in seeing your engine number, if still present, because the rockers you have are the forged type. They only came on the first generation (think flange block) 1275. The engine number plate us found on the horizontal boss atop the block, under #1 spark plug. If it is missing, take a picture of the area where the block joins the oil pan. I will be able to identify if it is an early block. The anodized retainers are not stock either.

...

If you are interested in a steel bonnet, I have one in very good condition. Obviously shipping would be an issue. Sorry, but that fiberglass one you have is hideous. It's designed for racing, but doesn't look right for a street car and not well integrated with the rest of the car. Speedwell engineering makes some very good quality and much better styled replacements.

https://www.speedwellengineering.com

 

[AHRMA361]

The carburetor has "HOLLEY" molded into the automatic choke cap, so I figure it is a Holley carb? Could be wrong?
Can't figure out why somebody would remove the bumpers and put the marker lights in a different position either. Someone's idea of artistic license? Yes, the bonnet is not so attractive. It does have some sweet Marchal halogens in it.
The Crane Cams XR-700 ignition module and unit appears to be something that adds into the distributor as the dist. cap still says Lucas on it? Assuming it is a common upgrade to eliminate the breaker point ignition.

Holley or Weber?

Engine ID tag for Gerard to decode:

 

[Gerard]

The carburetor has "HOLLEY" molded into the automatic choke cap, so I figure it is a Holley carb? Could be wrong?
Can't figure out why somebody would remove the bumpers and put the marker lights in a different position either. Someone's idea of artistic license? Yes, the bonnet is not so attractive. It does have some sweet Marchal halogens in it.
The Crane Cams XR-700 ignition module and unit appears to be something that adds into the distributor as the dist. cap still says Lucas on it? Assuming it is a common upgrade to eliminate the breaker point ignition.


Holley or Weber?

Engine ID tag for Gerard to decode:

If it says "Holley", I would assume the same. The Weber does look similar, if not identical... could just be a rebranded Weber or vice versa.

I favor the Crane XR700. I have been installing those since is was Allison brand in the 1970's. Yes, electronic ignition. The Marshall halogens is a nice bonus, and probably go back a ways... not sure that you can get those anymore! I have some Marchal twin tone horns I'm saving for my Bugeye.

You do indeed have a first gen 1275. 12CC was quickly superseded to the 12CD. Some had the much sought after nitrided EN40B crank, but your high serial number makes it unlikely in your case. There's not a documented ending point to their use. They were changed before the end of production. 11717 would be a July engine, and last made were January '68, ending at 16348

 

[HealeyRick]

Odd how those "bumperettes" were removed and the lower lights put in that general area.

Yes. It looks to me like there's some serious filler built up back there...See, it's already time to send the spelunker in!

Looks like the signal lights were mounted in the holes where the upper bolts for the bumperettes were mounted. Wonder if there was a rear end accident and some "resculpting" done back there. I can't tell from the pics whether the beading that is on the top of the rear fenders continues all the way past the taillights and on to the bottom of the fender. If it doesn't, it's a good indication some cosmetic work was done. Surprisingly, we've got this far and no one has mentioned one of the biggest factors in deciding how far to go in restoring a bugeye ... rust. With a car coming from the rust belt, you really need to get the car up on a lift and see how rust has taken hold in the floors, rocker panels and inner sills. Pay special attention to where the rear springs go into the spring boxes, this is a particularly bad area. You also want to check around the lower parts of the rear fenders and lower part of the A pillars and door hinge areas for rust. Remember, not every bugeye has to be redone as a concours or show car. With what you have there, for relatively short money, you could have a fun little driver if it's solid. Mechanicals are relatively cheap, and a makeshift interior wouldn't cost a lot either. All depends on your budget.

 

[AHRMA361]

HealeyRick - there has been metal and bondo work done in the rear wheel wells and other places around the car. The beading is gone below the lights so you are probably spot on with your statement.
What is interesting is it appears the entire bottom pan was replaced at some point. There has been work done in the spring boxes. I don't have a lift to get it up and my camera photo's don't come out too well. I will try and get some decent pictures to post up.

There is part of a sticker on the underbelly pan. Maybe someone knows by looking at it?