TR2/3/3A Upper cylinder oiler

[vickxxx]

As I was looking thru Ebay, an intake manifold with vapor lubricator upper cyl oiler is for sale (I've never heard of this till now). So I'm looking at the top of my intake manifold and there are two threaded holes with a couple of bolts plugging them up. It looks like at one time or another some type of oiler system was hooked into the manifold. I recall reading that oiling during the break in period was crucial for the head. But once broken in, is this even necessary? Is anybody out there running one of these on there vehicle and is there a noticeable difference running with and without it? Curiosity is getting the best of me at the moment

 

[TR3driver]

There has been some debate locally about the benefits of upper cylinder lubrication. Several people in my club make it a habit to add MMO to their fuel for that reason. Not to benefit the head, but to reduce piston ring wear. The theory is that ethanol in the fuel (which is mandatory here in CA) combined with our rather primitive carbs can wash away the oil film on the cylinder walls, leading to rapid wear. For example, one local club member's TR4 started visibly smoking just a few thousand miles after being rebuilt, and kept getting worse until they tore it down with roughly 8000 miles (IIRC) on the clock. The end gap on the rings was huge. Replaced the rings again, and started it on a steady diet of MMO in the fuel; last time I talked to the owner he had over 30,000 miles on it and still no smoke. Steve Hedke (formerly of British Pacific and Team Scrappy) told me he has seen the exact same problems on other vintage engines, including a 50's Land Rover and a Ford flathead V8. The fuel would seem to be the only thing in common.

The TR3 owner's manual even mentions mixing upper cylinder lube with the fuel, "Such lubricants may be used with advantage throughout the life of the vehicle, particularly in cold weather."

I do the same thing but with synthetic 2-cycle oil (which is a lot cheaper than MMO and should hopefully work better as an upper cylinder lube), about 4 ounces per tankful. I can't really prove any benefit, but it seems like the engine likes it. Idles smoother (and higher), doesn't seem to use as much crankcase oil and maybe even burns a little bit less fuel. Or that all may be wishful thinking.

Not really related, but amusing I think : The old Judson superchargers came with a Marvel "Inverse" Oiler, which was used to lubricate the sliding vanes in the supercharger through a connection to the intake manifold. However, Judson specifically warned against using MMO or "upper cylinder lubricant" and instead said to use 10 weight detergent motor oil. There is supposed to be a cheesy label that they stuck on the oiler jar over the original Marvel sticker, but most of them fell off soon after installation.

 

[bnw]

Back in the day in 1969, I bought a 1960 Mercury Comet somewhere near San Diego. There was a primitive California pcv emissions hook up with at least one hole in the intake manifold, possibly two hooked up to the valve cover. I remember this well because the poor worn out 6 was breaking exhaust push rods and backfiring hard enough to blow the hose of the installed nipple on the intake, killing the car, usually on the interstate.

 

[number6]

I currently run an Amoco top cylinder lubricator on my Spitfire. Essentially a glass bottle with valve connected to the Carb.
I put it in as I was also concerned with Ethanol blended gasoline. These are pretty common on That major auction site.
Truth be told I am not sure how much difference it makes on a 70's engine vs something from the 30 or 40's. It comes down to
I think it helps so I feel better.

 

[vickxxx]

There has been some debate locally about the benefits of upper cylinder lubrication. Several people in my club make it a habit to add MMO to their fuel for that reason. Not to benefit the head, but to reduce piston ring wear. The theory is that ethanol in the fuel (which is mandatory here in CA) combined with our rather primitive carbs can wash away the oil film on the cylinder walls, leading to rapid wear. For example, one local club member's TR4 started visibly smoking just a few thousand miles after being rebuilt, and kept getting worse until they tore it down with roughly 8000 miles (IIRC) on the clock. The end gap on the rings was huge. Replaced the rings again, and started it on a steady diet of MMO in the fuel; last time I talked to the owner he had over 30,000 miles on it and still no smoke. Steve Hedke (formerly of British Pacific and Team Scrappy) told me he has seen the exact same problems on other vintage engines, including a 50's Land Rover and a Ford flathead V8. The fuel would seem to be the only thing in common.

The TR3 owner's manual even mentions mixing upper cylinder lube with the fuel, "Such lubricants may be used with advantage throughout the life of the vehicle, particularly in cold weather."

I do the same thing but with synthetic 2-cycle oil (which is a lot cheaper than MMO and should hopefully work better as an upper cylinder lube), about 4 ounces per tankful. I can't really prove any benefit, but it seems like the engine likes it. Idles smoother (and higher), doesn't seem to use as much crankcase oil and maybe even burns a little bit less fuel. Or that all may be wishful thinking.

Not really related, but amusing I think : The old Judson superchargers came with a Marvel "Inverse" Oiler, which was used to lubricate the sliding vanes in the supercharger through a connection to the intake manifold. However, Judson specifically warned against using MMO or "upper cylinder lubricant" and instead said to use 10 weight detergent motor oil. There is supposed to be a cheesy label that they stuck on the oiler jar over the original Marvel sticker, but most of them fell off soon after installation.

The State of Hawaii as of December 31, 2015 repealed [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]the requirement that gasoline offered for sale in Hawaii contain a percentage of ethanol. I'll have to check the local pumps to see if the labeling is gone. It will probably take a few months before reserves that do have ethanol are depleted. But I think I will start adding MMO to my fuel just to be on the safe side. Thanx for your insight on this.[/FONT]

 

[vickxxx]

I currently run an Amoco top cylinder lubricator on my Spitfire. Essentially a glass bottle with valve connected to the Carb.
I put it in as I was also concerned with Ethanol blended gasoline. These are pretty common on That major auction site.
Truth be told I am not sure how much difference it makes on a 70's engine vs something from the 30 or 40's. It comes down to
I think it helps so I feel better.

That's the one I was looking at! I'm just trying to sort out if some of the remedies out there are just snake oil or are they relevant to the upkeep of a 57 year old car. Seems like ethanol can do some serious damage to these older engines and a unit like you are running or MMO in the fuel tank would solve the problem. Plus it'll make me feel better

 

[vickxxx]

BTW, https://www.pure-gas.org has a listing of ethanol free gas stations across the U.S. and Canada. I'm not sure how complete it is, but it's worth a look to see if one is in your neighborhood.

 

[Roger]

Back when the TR3 was young, there was a product called Redex on just about every garage forecourt in the UK, and you were always offered "shots". No Fill-it-yourself then, of course, the attendant did it. A shot cost penny or two and was a squirt into the tank from a dispenser.
You could even buy Redex devices that fitted in your car and administered a squirt of UCL every so often. It looked and felt just like Marvel Mystery Oil.

I just Googled Redex, and discovered that you can buy dispensers for a silly price, and that Redex is still made, though not like the old UCL I think.

 

[vickxxx]

Back when the TR3 was young, there was a product called Redex on just about every garage forecourt in the UK, and you were always offered "shots". No Fill-it-yourself then, of course, the attendant did it. A shot cost penny or two and was a squirt into the tank from a dispenser.
You could even buy Redex devices that fitted in your car and administered a squirt of UCL every so often. It looked and felt just like Marvel Mystery Oil.

I just Googled Redex, and discovered that you can buy dispensers for a silly price, and that Redex is still made, though not like the old UCL I think.

When I was a mechanic back in the 1980's, some of the "old school" mechanics swore by the use of Marvel Mystery Oil. It was from their experience working on cars from the 50's and 60's that brought them to this conclusion. At the time, being the young upstart that I was in the 80's, I pawned it off as just a marketing ploy, snake oil to say the least. But with emissions the way they are these days, newer different oils and additives in fuels are no longer compatible with the engines of long ago.
So at this point, MMO in the fuel tank will be the way to go.