Upper Ball Joint Fun and Games

[bigjones]

Hi folks,
Look what happened to the bolt from the ball joint splinter. Ha!
It's the bolt on the bottom. Then I used an unmarked bolt (colored like a grade 8). That broke as well. Then an old grade 5 - even that bent a little until that pesky ball joint popped. (That's not the original long bolt either - that stripped out when I done the tie rods)

Here's the replacement ball joint from BPNW. As you can see, it uses a nyloc nut instead of a castle nut. It does not include a washer. Should I go ahead and use the old one (shown in first pic)? Haynes does not have a torque for the nut. Really, really tight, eh, with blue loctite?

Cheers,
Adrian
TS 58324

 

[TR3driver]

Just a thought, Adrian, are you driving the splitter in as far as it will go? The end of the stud should rest on the curved part of the arm, not the point, which gives the splitter much more leverage over the joint to be separated.

Factory manual gives 55-65 ftlb, which works for me, along with the nyloc. However I find it best to first install and torque with a plain nut, so the stud cannot start turning when the locking ring grabs it. Seems to be easier than trying to pry on the joint to hold the taper locked while you tighten the nyloc.

 

[bigjones]

Randall,

Wow. Yes, I think I was using the point rather than the curved part. Third try, I used the curved part and that is when it popped.

Good idea using a plain nut first! I'll do it.

Should I use the washer, do you think?

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[TR3driver]

Should I use the washer, do you think?

I would, but I don't think it makes much difference. The washer just helps keep the surface of the vertical link from getting chewed up after multiple replacements.

 

[bigjones]

Randall,
Very cool. I'm back at it!
Thanks!
Adrian

 

[MDCanaday]

Dont get in too big a hurry doing this job ...this is your opportunity to check the upper arms for stress cracks(that could get you killed) They tend to happen around the ball joint mount and the spacer.
MD(mad dog)

 

[bigjones]

Mad Dog,
Thanks for the safety alert. Here's a pic - I think they look OK.

BTW, I put in 10 stokes of grease from one of those small grease guns into the new ball joint - expecting the excess to ooze out. But nothing. Now I'm worried that the boot is overfull with grease and the boot will unseat when I lower the car to the ground.
My plan is to take off the grease fitting/zerk and then slowly lower the car to the ground, thinking that any surplus grease will come out the hole. Or am I worried about nothing. Do those joints come fully greased up from the factory or are they empty and the mechanic is expected to fill with a grease gun.
Cheers,
Adrian

 

[bigjones]

OK,
More worries:
I had disconnected the ball joint from the upper arms to inspect for cracks. I've just put it back on again and tightened the nut down pretty tight. Now it appears that the hole for the split pin is actually higher up the shaft than the nut and the hole does not align with the castellations. Jeez, have I overtightened? Now the split pin will not prevent the nut from rotating.
Its not that I simply have to back off the nut to get alignment - the nut has been tightened past the hole. I suppose I could put in an extra washer but this has me worried.
Adrian
TS58324

 

[TR3driver]

That spacer inside the arms looks suspect to me; why is it that funny color? IIRC mine are steel, that looks like ... wood ???

OK, I dug some spare upper arms out of the parts bin. I measure 1.125" from the shoulder to the center of the cotter pin hole. Each arm is about .10", and the spacer is about .40", plus the washer is about .10" and the nut is about .20" from the bottom of the nut to the bottom of a cotter pin slot.

So, that's .10 * 4 or .40" plus .40" plus .10" plus .20" which totals about 1.10".

I wouldn't think over tightening is the problem, unless you pulled it down REALLY tight. While I certainly wouldn't suggest it, even 100 ftlb shouldn't be able to crush those components enough to cause your problem. I'd guess the spacer fell out or is wrong, etc.

 

[TR3driver]

Oh yeah, I don't think the grease is anything to worry about. If the boot is overfull (which is likely), it will just squeeze out the excess grease when you install the joint to the VL.

They do seem to come with some grease inside, but I like to add more of my own anyway. At least for U-joints, the supplied grease is only intended to prevent rust during shipping. I don't know if the same rule applies to ball joints, but it can't hurt.

 

[bgbassplyr]

Do I see a horizontal crack at the top of the red spring pocket or just paint chipped off a weld?

 

[bigjones]

that looks like ... wood ???

LOL!!!!!!
I needed that!
I think I had degreased that spacer when I had replaced the bushes - so that is just surface rust.
Reminds me of a story I heard about a guy who disassembled an old motorbike engine and found a piston made out of wood!
Many thanks for the time taking those measurements, Randall. Here's a rough measurement, shot in situ, as they say:

Jives with your measurements. Looks like the spacer is too small. Let me disassemble and take some proper measurements.

Do I see a horizontal crack at the top of the red spring pocket or just paint chipped off a weld?

I see what you mean but it looks like a weld to me. Definitely not a crack. Let me clean it up.

I certainly appreciate the help, as always.

Cheers,
Adrian
(snowed in)

 

[bigjones]

OK,
The old BJ measurement is 1 1/8", which jives with Randall's:

The new, installed BJ measures 1 1/4":

The spacer measures 0.365"

Seems the problem is the new BJ - could I add another washer under the castle nut?

Incidentally, Have I got this right - if that BJ is not brought up snug to the arms then the camber would be affected?

 

[TR3driver]

A washer (or two) should be fine; assuming you aren't worried about other defects in the new ball joint.

Yes, if the ball joint is spaced out from the A-arms, it will affect both camber and steering axis inclination.

 

[RonMacPherson]

In the future when removing joints and you are using a puller or separator.

A suggestion, when the separator/remover bolt starts getting extremely hard to turn.

Use shock power.

Take a couple of hammers, I prefer brass on the joint or a brass hammer and whack the joint on the side a couple of times. The shock usually breaks the joint loose. Make sure your eyes are protected and do not use a carpenter claw hammer where the steel may chipoff. ball peen or 5 pound sledge, maybe...?

 

[bigjones]

Ron,

Thanks for the suggestion - I might be using it sooner than later. I have contacted the ball joint vendor and asked them (very politely) to look into the disceprancy.

The number on the bag jives with the number given in the TR3 parts catalog (200772) but, thinking about it, that doesn't mean much, does it. Ha!

Cheers,
Adrian