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Removing front fenders & hood
- Thread starter tdskip
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Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi,
Mostly it's just a matter of unbolting things with both fenders and hood. Not much to suggest except that the hood is a two person (minimum) job. The top lip of the fender hooks over a couple places on the splash panel and the A-post, so it's a one-person job for the large part, so long as you leave one of the more forward screws in until last.
You might want to tape off the door leading edges and the trailing edges of the fenders, to protect againgst any bumps. Of course, that's much more important to do during reassembly, once the parts are freshly refinished, than during disassembly.
Oh, and you might want to scribe a mark around the bolts on the hood hinges - plus the bracket positions in the engine compartment - to make reinstallation & alignment a lot easier. Of course, since will be stripping and refinishing the parts, you will obliterate most marks and careful photos taken before loosening might be your next-best option.
In general, photos of everything before you take it apart, and perhaps some more during the process, are always a good idea. It's amazing how easy it is to forget how things looked before disassmbly, although these particular parts aren't all that difficult to sort out.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Mostly it's just a matter of unbolting things with both fenders and hood. Not much to suggest except that the hood is a two person (minimum) job. The top lip of the fender hooks over a couple places on the splash panel and the A-post, so it's a one-person job for the large part, so long as you leave one of the more forward screws in until last.
You might want to tape off the door leading edges and the trailing edges of the fenders, to protect againgst any bumps. Of course, that's much more important to do during reassembly, once the parts are freshly refinished, than during disassembly.
Oh, and you might want to scribe a mark around the bolts on the hood hinges - plus the bracket positions in the engine compartment - to make reinstallation & alignment a lot easier. Of course, since will be stripping and refinishing the parts, you will obliterate most marks and careful photos taken before loosening might be your next-best option.
In general, photos of everything before you take it apart, and perhaps some more during the process, are always a good idea. It's amazing how easy it is to forget how things looked before disassmbly, although these particular parts aren't all that difficult to sort out.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Follow up question - actually two questions.
1) How do I remove the stainless steel modeling trim and turn signal lights from the side of the front fenders? Do they just pop-off?
2) I'm having a hard time finding the fender retaining screws on the inside for the front fenders. The drawings in the manuals make it look as if there are retaining screws that should be accessible from the inside of either the engine bay or foot wells inside the car. Where should the screws be?
1) How do I remove the stainless steel modeling trim and turn signal lights from the side of the front fenders? Do they just pop-off?
2) I'm having a hard time finding the fender retaining screws on the inside for the front fenders. The drawings in the manuals make it look as if there are retaining screws that should be accessible from the inside of either the engine bay or foot wells inside the car. Where should the screws be?
The toughest screws are in fact bolts that are under the carpeted side panels of the A pillar.These can test the resolve any man.You will need lots of high quality rust penatrant as they are certain to be corroded.Pull the bulkhead plates to spray the welded nuts from the outside.
Good luck, and have plenty of beer handy.....
MD(mad dog)
Good luck, and have plenty of beer handy.....
MD(mad dog)
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
I forgot about those hidden bolts!
MD is correct, they often are rusty. The reason is they are too long and a lot of threads are exposed into that area where the scuttle vent drains.
A *very* good hidden modification to make while the fenders are off is to extend the drain tube (you'll see it once the fenders are removed) down through the rockers. This means drilling a hole in the top of the rocker (which will be hidden behind the fender once it's reinstalled) and another on the vertical wall of the inner rocker (only visible from under the car). Then the drain can be routed all the way out, under the car and that will really help prevent rust in the hidden area.
If you do extend the drains as described, and during all the reassembly for that matter, be sure to use plenty of auto body seam sealer to keep that area nice and dry in the future. It's available at auto body supply stores.
If the splash panels are rusty or damaged, replacements from TRF are nicely powder coated and this is a great place to add that sort of extra protection. Once the splash panels fail, they allow dirt and mud to get into that area and, once it's wet, it can't dry and will quickly rot out the rocker, fender and even the wall of the foot well. Fender and rocker can be replaced with cutting and welding. The wall of the foot well too, but it is a real bugger!
I think you'll see how the trim pieces and lights come off, once the fenders are removed. (Can't recall if I've ever pulled those off a TR4A or 250, so I'm not much help there.)
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
MD is correct, they often are rusty. The reason is they are too long and a lot of threads are exposed into that area where the scuttle vent drains.
A *very* good hidden modification to make while the fenders are off is to extend the drain tube (you'll see it once the fenders are removed) down through the rockers. This means drilling a hole in the top of the rocker (which will be hidden behind the fender once it's reinstalled) and another on the vertical wall of the inner rocker (only visible from under the car). Then the drain can be routed all the way out, under the car and that will really help prevent rust in the hidden area.
If you do extend the drains as described, and during all the reassembly for that matter, be sure to use plenty of auto body seam sealer to keep that area nice and dry in the future. It's available at auto body supply stores.
If the splash panels are rusty or damaged, replacements from TRF are nicely powder coated and this is a great place to add that sort of extra protection. Once the splash panels fail, they allow dirt and mud to get into that area and, once it's wet, it can't dry and will quickly rot out the rocker, fender and even the wall of the foot well. Fender and rocker can be replaced with cutting and welding. The wall of the foot well too, but it is a real bugger!
I think you'll see how the trim pieces and lights come off, once the fenders are removed. (Can't recall if I've ever pulled those off a TR4A or 250, so I'm not much help there.)
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Success! So it turns out that my trouble getting the driver's fender off wasn't entirely due to my being dense. The DPO put screws in non-stock places that I finally tracked down.
Here is what the inside of the fender looks like. Looks like I have some speaker holes to fix.
This will be off to get dipped along with the hood.
Here is what the inside of the fender looks like. Looks like I have some speaker holes to fix.
This will be off to get dipped along with the hood.
Attachments
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi,
Cool! Looks pretty good in there, actually.
Do you want a few suggestions? Maybe you've already thought of and planned some things, now that you see better what you have to work with. I'll throw out a few ideas, just in case. Please forgive me if I mention something you've already considered.
1. A little hard to tell, but it looks like you might need a new splash panel. That's the vertical part sticking out at a right angle from the inner fender, directly behind the tire. In the photo, the bottom appears to be rotted away. The splash panel inserts are very important to keep moisture and gunk out of that hidden compartment, as are the rubber seals on their outer edges and a liberal caulking of everything with seam sealer when it goes back together.
The splash panels are pretty widely available, or might just be made up relatively easily yourself, using the old one as a guide. However most that are sold or any you made up yourself would need finishing as well (semi-gloss black paint was original). On the other hand, The Roadster Factory offers splash panels already nicely powdercoated and ready to bolt in place, which might be a good deal.
2. See the plastic tube that serves as a drain for the scuttle vent? It dumps water into that hidden compartment, after which the water is supposed to drain out of a small gap between the bottom edge of the fender and the rocker where the fender bolts up. That gap is easily and often plugged up, forming a very nice trap for moisture and an ideal place for rust to get started! This is a key reason that many rockers and fenders rot out down there.
Can't be certain from the photo, but the rockers look reasonably good, too. If so - or even if you end up replacing them - you might want to rig up and attach an extension to that drain tube (first run a wire up through the existing tube to make sure it's not plugged up in any way) and route the extension down into the rocker (through a hole in that hidden horizontal area), make a turn and bring it out under the car through the inner wall of the rocker. That way, any drainage from the scuttle vent is sent right out under the car and can't get trapped. Some sealer around the new vent drain tubing where it goes through the rocker will keep that area dry inside, too.
3. Check the seam sealer around the front end cap on the rocker, too, where splash from the tire might send more moisture inside.
4. Some might try to replace that footwell wall with a new piece to correct for the speaker cutout. Since it's totally hidden on both sides, I'd be more inclined to weld in a patch.
5. The A-post looks solid, which is great. But I suggest to inspect the welds, especially at the base inside and out.
6. The rear fender will need to come off before you can completely determine if the rockers are good enough to use and sign off on them (and to inspect the B-post carefully, especially near its base, which unfortunately is more likely to rust rot out than the A-post).
7. While things are apart, its an opportunity if you wish to drill some 1/2" access holes along the inner rocker (inside the cockpit) and spray in some sort of rust protector like Waxoyl, thoroughly covering the inside of the rocker and its seams as best possible. The access holes can then be plugged up. There are kits to do this sort of rust prevention, available from various sources, complete with a sprayer to hook up to a compressor, the rust preventative materials and plastic plugs to close up the holes when done.
8. I extensively painted that hidden area behind the front fender, when my car was apart in 1979. I just used two or three heavy coats of Rust-O-Leum red primer, and then topped it off with a spray-on undercoating materials that acted as a bit of a sound deadener. That kept any rust from getting started in there and it's still in great shape today. Right from the factory, the hidden compartment (and the inside and fastening edges of the fenders themselves) got very little paint to protect them! Any extra coatings you might add can help protect the parts and are mostly hidden.
9. Note that when the fender is reinstalled, it needs to be very carefully sealed all along the top edge especially. This is to keep moisture out from both above and below.
10. If you do have to replace the rockers or floors, it can be a bit tricky on any TR4, especially on TR4A. On all models you need to watch that the A-post doesn't drop down when the old rocker is removed. On both TR4 an 4A I think it's best to replace these parts with the body on the frame, although care needs to be given to fuel and brake lines running under the floors, if any cutting or welding is being done! The door fit is critical, so it needs to be left in place or refitted frequently and checked during any work on the floors/rockers (most other TR4/4A body parts are fitted "around" the doors).
On TR4A in particular, the frame is more flexible so this sort of work needs to be done while the car is supported on it's suspension. If it's jacked up or sitting on jack stands postioned under the frame rails, for example, there's enough flex to throw everything off, which won't be apparent until the car is back down on the ground. Sitting directly on the tires and wheels as shown in the photo is great. But an alternative if a 4A needs to be raised and the wheels need to come off is to carefully use jack stands to support the car by its wire wheel extensions. (With wheels & tires on, a series of flat 2x10s can be stacked under each tire to raise the car, if that makes for easier access.)
Finally, personally I was never a fan of dipping car parts. I've seen too many nice, new paint jobs ruined when some hidden chemicals sneak out of a seam weeks or months after the job was done. I do use brushed-on and sprayed-on stripping chemicals on larger, flat panels, where I can be totally sure to get it all back off before painting. But I carefully keep it away from all joints and seams, instead prefer to media blast those areas. Just a thought and it's been a lot of years since I've even looked at the dipping process. The dippers might have worked out some effective solutions to the old problems by now.
Have fun!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Cool! Looks pretty good in there, actually.
Do you want a few suggestions? Maybe you've already thought of and planned some things, now that you see better what you have to work with. I'll throw out a few ideas, just in case. Please forgive me if I mention something you've already considered.
1. A little hard to tell, but it looks like you might need a new splash panel. That's the vertical part sticking out at a right angle from the inner fender, directly behind the tire. In the photo, the bottom appears to be rotted away. The splash panel inserts are very important to keep moisture and gunk out of that hidden compartment, as are the rubber seals on their outer edges and a liberal caulking of everything with seam sealer when it goes back together.
The splash panels are pretty widely available, or might just be made up relatively easily yourself, using the old one as a guide. However most that are sold or any you made up yourself would need finishing as well (semi-gloss black paint was original). On the other hand, The Roadster Factory offers splash panels already nicely powdercoated and ready to bolt in place, which might be a good deal.
2. See the plastic tube that serves as a drain for the scuttle vent? It dumps water into that hidden compartment, after which the water is supposed to drain out of a small gap between the bottom edge of the fender and the rocker where the fender bolts up. That gap is easily and often plugged up, forming a very nice trap for moisture and an ideal place for rust to get started! This is a key reason that many rockers and fenders rot out down there.
Can't be certain from the photo, but the rockers look reasonably good, too. If so - or even if you end up replacing them - you might want to rig up and attach an extension to that drain tube (first run a wire up through the existing tube to make sure it's not plugged up in any way) and route the extension down into the rocker (through a hole in that hidden horizontal area), make a turn and bring it out under the car through the inner wall of the rocker. That way, any drainage from the scuttle vent is sent right out under the car and can't get trapped. Some sealer around the new vent drain tubing where it goes through the rocker will keep that area dry inside, too.
3. Check the seam sealer around the front end cap on the rocker, too, where splash from the tire might send more moisture inside.
4. Some might try to replace that footwell wall with a new piece to correct for the speaker cutout. Since it's totally hidden on both sides, I'd be more inclined to weld in a patch.
5. The A-post looks solid, which is great. But I suggest to inspect the welds, especially at the base inside and out.
6. The rear fender will need to come off before you can completely determine if the rockers are good enough to use and sign off on them (and to inspect the B-post carefully, especially near its base, which unfortunately is more likely to rust rot out than the A-post).
7. While things are apart, its an opportunity if you wish to drill some 1/2" access holes along the inner rocker (inside the cockpit) and spray in some sort of rust protector like Waxoyl, thoroughly covering the inside of the rocker and its seams as best possible. The access holes can then be plugged up. There are kits to do this sort of rust prevention, available from various sources, complete with a sprayer to hook up to a compressor, the rust preventative materials and plastic plugs to close up the holes when done.
8. I extensively painted that hidden area behind the front fender, when my car was apart in 1979. I just used two or three heavy coats of Rust-O-Leum red primer, and then topped it off with a spray-on undercoating materials that acted as a bit of a sound deadener. That kept any rust from getting started in there and it's still in great shape today. Right from the factory, the hidden compartment (and the inside and fastening edges of the fenders themselves) got very little paint to protect them! Any extra coatings you might add can help protect the parts and are mostly hidden.
9. Note that when the fender is reinstalled, it needs to be very carefully sealed all along the top edge especially. This is to keep moisture out from both above and below.
10. If you do have to replace the rockers or floors, it can be a bit tricky on any TR4, especially on TR4A. On all models you need to watch that the A-post doesn't drop down when the old rocker is removed. On both TR4 an 4A I think it's best to replace these parts with the body on the frame, although care needs to be given to fuel and brake lines running under the floors, if any cutting or welding is being done! The door fit is critical, so it needs to be left in place or refitted frequently and checked during any work on the floors/rockers (most other TR4/4A body parts are fitted "around" the doors).
On TR4A in particular, the frame is more flexible so this sort of work needs to be done while the car is supported on it's suspension. If it's jacked up or sitting on jack stands postioned under the frame rails, for example, there's enough flex to throw everything off, which won't be apparent until the car is back down on the ground. Sitting directly on the tires and wheels as shown in the photo is great. But an alternative if a 4A needs to be raised and the wheels need to come off is to carefully use jack stands to support the car by its wire wheel extensions. (With wheels & tires on, a series of flat 2x10s can be stacked under each tire to raise the car, if that makes for easier access.)
Finally, personally I was never a fan of dipping car parts. I've seen too many nice, new paint jobs ruined when some hidden chemicals sneak out of a seam weeks or months after the job was done. I do use brushed-on and sprayed-on stripping chemicals on larger, flat panels, where I can be totally sure to get it all back off before painting. But I carefully keep it away from all joints and seams, instead prefer to media blast those areas. Just a thought and it's been a lot of years since I've even looked at the dipping process. The dippers might have worked out some effective solutions to the old problems by now.
Have fun!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
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