front suspension bushings. - how big of an effort?

[jackag91]

I've got the rear suspension and brakes back on. But I figured since I redid the back brakes, I should probably do the front ones as well. And since the car is going to be on blocks for at least another couple of weeks....

I stated toying with the idea of doing the front suspension bushings as well.

This time, I thought I would ask some questions before I started:

1. How big of an effort is this?
2. Would I need any special tools?
3. Is this one of those things that will turn into 20 other "might as wells" like packing the bearings, etc?
4. should I go rubber, urethane, other?

 

[TR4]

The job is not all that tough. I completely rebuilt the entire front suspension on my TR4 this past winter and I classify myself as a true novice. The only tough part was changing the metal bushings in the lower A-arms which need to be pressed in and reamed to fit the trunnions. I left that to a local machine shop which did that for 40 bucks. As far as rubber or poly bushings, that would depend on how you want the car to ride, poly being the harder of the two. The entire job took me two weekends to complete. Took it apart, cleaned and painted one weekend and then got the A-arms back to re-assemble the next weekend. I have not yet taken the car for a ride but it is all lined up and ready for testing.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Going mostly by what I've heard (as well as a bit of recent personal experience), rubber nowadays seems to be a questionable choice. It simply doesn't seem to be as durable as it used to be. Meanwhile, poly bushes come in various degrees of hardness, including ones that are equivalent to OEM rubber bushings as well as firmer ones (for more 'spirited' driving).

 

[John_Mc]

I'm in the middle of this job for the first time myself and I'd have to say that overall it is very straightforward. The trunnions on the TR4a-TR6 (as near as I can tell) are different from those on the TR2-4 and don't have the same metal bushings described above, so they are very easy to reassemble. You will need a spring compressor to safely take the suspension apart. Moss sells one for around $60. I made my own for a lot less and lived to tell about it. The only big obstacles I've encountered so far have been that I stripped the threads on an upper fulcrum pin using waaaay to much force putting the nut on, and a previous owner had welded the lower fulcrum bracket to the frame. "TR4" is right though, you should be able to do this in one or two weekends.

 

[jackag91]

Thanks,

I think I might put this on my after the summer list.

 

[PeterK]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] and a previous owner had welded the lower fulcrum bracket to the frame. [/QUOTE]

The original TR4A lower fulcrum brackets were bolted to the frame with only one bolt which was vastly inadequate and a common source of failure. A popular modification people make is to use later TR6 brackets that have two bolts through the chassis instead of one to keep the brackets from tearing out. I suspect that the previous owner of your 4A took the easy way out and welded the bracket, thus adding strength. But what your dpo didn't account for was retaining the ability to adjust the caster and camber. Alignment shims are placed behind these brackets to move the arms in and out aft and forward, then the bolts were tightened to the frame. Lucky for you, it was only one welded bracket (was it?)

 

[John_Mc]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Lucky for you, it was only one welded bracket (was it?) [/QUOTE]
Yes, but this was on a TR6. In addition to not being able to align with shims, it's also impossible to change out the bushings. I was able to get the arm out by using a saws-all on the bolt, but I'll still need to cut the weld to get the arm back in. See my previous post "The Ghost of Pedro"

 

[DougF]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Rebuilding the front end can be a weekend job if you don't sandblast and paint all of the pieces. Remember, the second side usually goes much faster.
The spring compressor tool can be made from B7 threaded rod. This is considerably stronger than standard rod, and will reduce the chance of tool failure. Grade 8 nuts and flat washers are recommended. Some people use a piece of steel for the bottom, some use a piece of 2x4.
My theory on bushings is they are pivot points. I do not want my pivot points to help soften the ride.
You will need a basic set of tools. There are several cotter pins, so a tool to pull them is handy, but not necessary. Needle nose pliers will work. You may need a long screw driver/pry bar to pull the shock mounting brackets off of the studs. This can be a corrosion area. A hydraulic floor jack is also good to have.
Have some penetrating oil on hand. Don't reuse cotter pins, lock or flat washers, or lock nuts.
You will want to remove, clean, and regrease the trunnion.
As far as 20 other jobs, do what needs done. If you clean the bearings, test, and repack them, you will know they are in good condition for many miles of driving. They don't take long to do.
Have a good shop manual available and you will do fine.

 

[Guest]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Interestingly enough, the Bentley manual shows how to use a floor jack to remove the front spring. This is potential suicide. Surely, thousands have done it this way but the 50$ you will spend on that spring-removing compressing tool is worth your life or limb.

 

[DougF]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Removal, I can see where it could be done. Installation would be a different story.
I had a problem when restoring my TR6 where the threads on my spring compressor decided they'd had enough. Things like that only happen when the spring is compressed(at least with me). Fortunately, it was on a rolling chassis and the compressor didn't fly to where it could cause damage. But standing that close while cutting it with a hacksaw was a little discomforting. That is why I suggest B7.

 

[karls59tr]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Anyone have a picture of a good substantial home made spring compressor?

 

[KVH]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

I think you'd find it easier than you think, as long as you buy a spring compressor and follow the shop manual. New bushings in the front suspension, with new tie rods and ball joints, made a big difference with my car, a TR4A.

I'd recommend that you buy urethane bushings. I'm not certain, but I don't believe you'll need any special tools to press the inner lower wishbone bushings into place for your TR6, though I did use some grease and a small puller type tool to help push the bushing into each lower wishbone.

A cheap alignment tool from Moss, the long bar, is also well worth the money.

The front lower bushings were a breeze--dust caps, spacers, etc. A new set of course. But it wouldn't hurt to buy new trunions and front shocks, also. And, springs are so cheap, why not replace those too, along with the rubber spring spacers.

I think you'll have fun and be glad you tackled the job.

There is a risk that once you get things apart, you'll then start examining the spring housings and frame, and say, "Maybe I'll do some rust proofing." Be careful, or suddenly it will be August.

But, again, it's fairly easy stuff. Have the car on jack stands and be careful.

Oh, also, definitely go to a good mechanics auto parts store and buy two great new, improved tools they have out--one breaks the tie rod, the other the ball joint. Each costs about $50 and is a great replica/replacement of the Churchill tools. If you use a pitch fork and hammer like I first did, you'll risk suffering months of emotional trauma and periods of self-doubt, often wakening at night, curious whether you're a Neanderthal.

Good luck.

 

[John_Mc]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Kentville, do you have pictures of those tools? I just got a ball joint remover from JCWhitney, but I haven't tried it out yet.
https://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Searc...&searchbtn.y=15

 

[Guest]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Kentville, do you have pictures of those tools? I just got a ball joint remover from JCWhitney, but I haven't tried it out yet.
https://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Searc...&searchbtn.y=15

John, that little gadget works as slick as grease. Worth a lot more than 10 bucks.

 

[Brosky]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Bill,

Take my word for it, you DO NOT want to see what can happen when a combination spring/floor jack job goes bad. I saw a man seriously hurt as well as damage to three cars in the bays around him when the jack slipped and the spring recoiled out of the frame.

I also saw it done safely hundreds of times, but it was by two or more experienced men, with the best jacks and air run equipment. Hardly the environment in which most of these projects will be undertaken.

And yes, the man doing it was a pro, but he did it alone because he didn't want to wait for his partner to finish his lunch.

 

[KVH]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Here is a photo of both tools.

 

[John_Mc]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Karl, here is a picture of my homemade spring compressor.

I don't know if I'd call it "substantial" but I was able to do the job with it. I made the base out of a metal electrical plate as seen alongside the compressor. If you have the means, I'd suggest using more than one or fabricating something out of thicker metal as you can see the one I have is bending under the stress. After I put the compressor in place, i put the shock brackets back on the lower spring pan over that metal plate just to keep it from flexing too much or slipping out. Here's a picture with it in place, though it's hard to see much from this angle:

Maybe someone with a better sense of self preservation might be able to comment on some of the potentially fatal flaws in my design, but using it in conjunction with the floor jack I felt pretty safe. And Bill is right, that ball joint remover works slick!

 

[Guest]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

If you have the means, I'd suggest using more than one or fabricating something out of thicker metal as you can see the one I have is bending under the stress.

Hey John, what the heck are you doing up so early?
And, how much disability insurance do you carry? You are right, that electrical plate isn't strong enough, witness it bending dramatically. If you are done with it, throw that away. If not, get you a piece of thicker metal, lad. (been a dentist 37 years, guess I can call you lad) You need those hands.

 

[karls59tr]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

Thanks for the pictures John. I'll beef up the plates when I build a set. Karl

 

[hondo402000]

Re: front suspension bushings. - how big of an eff

I used one of those nylon straps with the ratcheting device plus a floor jack to compress the spring, worked ok, Safe not so sure but it was a wide strap. Make sure when you put the upper arms back in the right place, I got mine reversed and took me a week to figure out I did it wrong, one side at a time would have prevented that