TR4/4A PAINT JOB/BODY WORK - quote help

[Willie_P]

Hi,

the below applies to a '62 TR4

After a multi-year restoration adventure, I am finally at the stage of sending off my complete body tub to be painted. I would like some advice on pricing only (pls refrain from other comments if possible so as to keep on subject). here is my goal/plan/price quote:

goal: show quality paint job wherein the car leaves my house via trailer supplied by paint/body man and it returns completely refinished via trailer (and/or the paint man trailers the rolling chassis to his shop for final fitment) and able to be mounted onto fully restored rolling chassis (which is already complete, the rolling chassis that is).

add-ons (no comments here please...ha, ha): going with a partially stripped "race" interior so, floor, inner rockers, rear false-seats area and trunk need to be fully finished in exterior color. windscreen chopped/sectioned 2.5 inches, body-color undercoating applied to wheel wells and body underside. chrome body strips (between fenders and body tub) sanded and painted to match exterior color.

plan to repair/refinish:

• bare metal stripping of entire body tub and all panels
• car has been zeibarted since the 1980's and all nooks/crannies are filled with "gunk" as well as all underlying surfaces, inner fenders - all need to be stripped (and this particular bodyman does not believe in chemical dip, etc)...wants to use heat/scraping.
• lower/rear portions of each front fender need replacement panels welded to repair typical rust as do "soup can" sized holes in same section of rocker sill (leading/front edge, just the surface section not the upper or lower pressed curves of rocker sill)
• there is no other major rust repair, etc to speak of
• as mentioned, complete refinish in single exterior/interior color with undercoat in same color
• trial fitment, final fitment to be completed by body shop

my quote as of july 2013 from a custom shop specializing in cars that have appeared in several magazines (hot rods mostly) and has recently completed a "best of show TR4" - is $18,000 picked-up/delivered including tax.

basic question - fair price for everything noted above? I really appreciate all of your help as this is a significant amount of money for me and as we all know these cars are not going to likely command the total amount of money you have in the restoration. I am fine with that as I am probably going to keep the car for many years and do want it to look great. I just want to be sure the quote is market correct for the level of service I am receiving. thanks, wp

 

[NutmegCT]

Price seems fair *if* everything is done the way you want. Assuming that the $18K is for the paint work, the add-ons, and the body repairs.

Step one: talk to as many other owners as possible, who have used that shop. Ask them how they felt about the work done. Most shops will say they can do the job. But the time frame can be a few years - or even never get finished at all, but the money pit remains open. And quality of work is very subjective.

And of course, get it all in writing well in advance. A contract - not a handshake.

Just my two cents.
Tom

 

[hondo402000]

I agree, all in writing, and you also might let them know you would like to look at the car on certain milestones to see that the repairs are being done to contract, like after metal work is done prior to painting, etc, if they have a problem with you stopping in unannounced, look else where, paint covers a lot of incorrectly done things

 

[Geo Hahn]

I agree that price sounds about right for quality work of the scope you describe. Is this base/clear coat?

I'm in the midst of similar (though somewhat less involved) work now -- as noted you want to know that you can drop in anytime... and then do so. If your interest flags, theirs will too.

I also had an up front agreement that I would get an email update with photos every Friday. This is especially useful if the shop is not nearby.

 

[luke44]

Hi, "goal: show quality paint job".....(and this particular bodyman does not believe in chemical dip, etc)...wants to use heat/scraping....

My 2 cents: You need to get someone up to date with the times, I don't care what he "believes". Sounds like he is a body man, not a restoration shop.

This is hours and hours and hours of billable work for what will be a less than satisfactory job in the end. All top shelf restorations are dipped or soda blasted, most on a rotisserie (but our lbc's can get by without one with a bit of creativity). It's the only way to go. And the cheapest too.

The assumption "there is no other rust repair" is like turning over a blank check. Find out what you are really dealing with to be fair to both parties. Once he gets the car, it's very hard to get it back if there is a dispute.

What's his hourly shop rate? You can carve $5k out of this price. Or it can be $5k more....

You may want to review this thread to see what $800, a rental truck, and a bit of time bought me...

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf...-Bare-QuikStrip-Allentown&highlight=quikstrip

Good luck with it and keep us posted.

 

[mallard]

I would check with Macy,s Garage, I don't think it would be that far away. For that kind of money a little longer trailer ride may be worth it.

 

[Gliderman8]

I second the advice of Bruce and Keith. Had mine chemical stripped and it save LOTS of time/$.

 

[dexstruh]

Whenever you decide, let me know - if it makes sense, you could probably use my dad's rotisserie for the process.

 

[Healey_Z]

The price is around 2X what my painter would charge, and that is in CA.

past project:

current project:

 

[NutmegCT]

But doesn't that $18K include the bodywork and modifications too?

 

[Healey_Z]

Nutmeg, here is how I worked up my estimate, based on my experience. The cost to media blast and prime the car $2-$3k, light rust repair $1k, show quality paint $6K. Here is a pic of my Mustang that he did before my British toys.

 

[Willie_P]

just to clarify a few items from my original post:

@luke44: yes, you are correct - he is a body shop specializing in custom car paint and body work. I am (personally) the restorer. this is the part of the process I am farming-out to a professional. I do disagree with your "all top shelf restorations...." comment; Paul Russell & Co. and other shops that I know well that specialize in Gullwings, Ferrari's, etc do not dip. They might soda blast, but do not dip.

his shop rate is $60/hour. My estimation is that he's assuming 275-280 hours worth of work at $60/hour. Local sales tax around here is 7% and his quote includes that.

The car has been a raw bodytub for several years now. it is completely devoid of all interior trimmings, hangings, parts and all fenders have been separated. i've poked, prodded, jammed, scrapped, etc. I've found the all rust that exists. others on this webforum are familiar with the car and know this also.

relative to the dip v. scrape.... there is a lot of debate out there regarding dipping, even in the LBC community. as far as soda blast, he is going to do that on the surface panels. however relative to the zeibart that is all over the underside of the car...when I had the frame painted (Which was also covered entirely in zeibart), the media blasting guy attempted to use something called "Black Beauty" to remove the zeibart and he said all that he got was media bouncing back in his face. he ended up soaking the frame in diesel fuel for two days to soften the zeibart and then scraped it and then finally was able to do the final go-over with media blasting.

@dex...I appreciate the offer, but I really just want the car to leave my garage and not come back for several months until it's ready to be bolted to the frame.

and to other points made; his shop is four miles from my house, we agreed to a scope of work document, final "out the door pricing" and a deadline for completion. I've also talked to others including the TR4 owner whom said they would use him again and verified the similar pricing.

 

[Willie_P]

@healeyZ...okay, I see where you are...now add (theoretically) in to your price, trailering to/fro your house (local), media blasting and FINISH-painting the entire interior metal surfaces (as there would be no carpeting to cover), blasting finish-painting the trunk and engine compartment in exterior color paint. also, replacement panel (sub-section) welding of lower rocker inner-sills/channels and outer sheet metal and chopping the windshield. plus all panel fitment, door-gapping, etc... how much would you add to your $10k quote that you've shown thus far.

BTW - my father in law just finished up a 100/6 and the one thing to keep in mind about TR's is the somewhat unique situation of the central body tub with the inner "False fenders" and then the outer fender panels (front and rear), both of these structures have inner and outer surfaces from top to bottom that need stripped and painted (be it undercoat paint or finish-coat paint). cars like MGB's and I think Healey's are more "monocoque" style construction and don't have this structure. From what I've been told by other TR owners is that this can add to the price of stripping/paint costs because of the extra labor and materials. Also, the refittment process is a lot of trial and error when trying to get final hood and trunklid to match the mounted fender heights etc...plus the doors also directly abut both front and rear fenders...so all of these panels work as a "system" that has to be in sync. my bodyman has agreed to undertake all of this such that if a surface panel is scratched, he is responsible for repair.

 

[luke44]

just to clarify a few items from my original post:

@luke44: .. I do disagree with your "all top shelf restorations...." comment; Paul Russell & Co. and other shops that I know well that specialize in Gullwings, Ferrari's, etc do not dip. They might soda blast, but do not dip...

relative to the dip v. scrape.... there is a lot of debate out there regarding dipping, even in the LBC community. as far as soda blast, he is going to do that on the surface panels. however relative to the zeibart that is all over the underside of the car...the media blasting guy attempted to use something called "Black Beauty" to remove the zeibart ... he ended up soaking the frame in diesel fuel for two days to soften the zeibart and then scraped it and then finally was able to do the final go-over with media blasting...

...and to other points made; his shop is four miles from my house, we agreed to a scope of work document, final "out the door pricing" and a deadline for completion. I've also talked to others including the TR4 owner whom said they would use him again and verified the similar pricing...

Hi Willie - just to clarify, if you re-read my post, I was not advocating dipping particularly - either dipping or soda - and I stand by the rest of the comment as accurate. But, dipping does take care of the Ziebart question and that's one significant advantage of that method. I agree there is debate about the dipping method, but I have personal experience twice with it now and couldn't be happier.

"Black Beauty" is a brand name of a slag type black aggregate blast media that is silica free and harder than sand and thought to have more of a cutting ability. Used in certain industrial appln's where silica may not be allowed.

Prices can vary. My car came in approx $7k less than your estimate even with the dipping costs but needed no body repair, only panel fitting. But if you are happy with it and the guy is local then it sounds like you are done shopping. Good luck with the project!

 

[Willie_P]

hey @luke...was just on your personal site...we have similar tastes; I recently sold a midnight blue met. 964 (1993) and while was away from this here BCF webpage was over on Tim Holt's website looking at current inventory of 964's and 911 G50's!!!! -wp

 

[luke44]

Cool - I explain the Porsche/Triumph mix as a left brain/right brain kind of thing. Just not sure which side is which... :friendly_wink:

I know Tim. He has some great cars and I always have wondered how he continually finds his low mileage inventory - almost bought a 993 from him, but the RSA came along at the last minute. I really like the midnight blue, which as you know sometimes in certain light looks almost black - I get a lot of comments on it.