TR2/3/3A Does anyone know the paint Code for british Racing Green for a 1954 TR-2?

[Redoakboo]

Does anyone know the paint code for British Racing Green on a 1954 TR-2?

 

[DrEntropy]

Many variations. There are several versions of BRG, it would seem they just threw together whatever came close in their opinion! A lighter shade that the ones after 1965 would likely be right for the year 1954. It's a real snipe hunt, since colors fade and change over time, even in "chip sample" books. Most modern suppliers don't even have sample books older than a few years.

 

[CJD]

This has been discussed many times over the years. Here is a re-post of one of the best descriptions of BRG I have seen,:



Dan

Here is a fairly well-done analysis by a fellow in California, but possibly more than you want as it covers the lighter shades as well:

Ray Feeney, California, USA

I have spent the last six months gathering a fair amount of information on British Racing Green from a variety of sources and I thought I should summarize it here for the benefit of all. I do have quite a bit more information if anyone feels that they want some of the more obscure mythology.

First, it is well documented that BRG is a range of colors – both for aesthetic reasons and because it visually varies significantly with small changes of formulation. Before the advent of repeatable paint mixing methodologies and more stringent controls on factory colors, the variations often occurred within the same brand and automotive model. In addition, painting techniques and base/pigment choices have evolved or become obsolete. Lead based pigments are no longer an option – therefore formulations exist for many of the variants, but the ingredients do not.

My painter uses PPG paints exclusively and prefers the DCC single stage Acrylic Urethane. Specifically PPG Deltron Concept 2K Urethane so all of these formulations listed here are for one quart quantities of PPG DCC. And I should acknowledge the help of the people in the Color Science Lab at PPG for their responsiveness as I went through this lengthy exercise.

I started off by gathering samples of BRG painted metal items and by accumulating as much of the history as I could gather. I had the computer system read about 15 metal samples (the underside of boot lids seemed the best candidates) and then I selected a few formulations and had these mixed up for testing. Once I had a candidate formulation, I had a sample sprayed onto a 6” x 9” primed metal sheet. These were then color sanded and waxed so that the entire process truly emulated the intended restoration approach. As I started changing the formulations, I learned a few things. Removing some of the black in the formulation, really gave a good insight into what kind of underlying green any particular approach to BRG was based on. When a percentage of the black is removed from the typical GN25 MG green formulation it shifts towards a very earthy muddy look -- trending towards a military type green. Perhaps there is something to the apocryphal story that after WWII the motor vehicle industry in England was well stocked with ingredients for military green paint formulations and that black was added to create a new family of colors that became known as British Racing Green.

In addition to using the computer paint system to read (and attempt to understand) the colorimetry of surviving period painted automobiles, I gathered information about what people have been using for BRG on the typical bulletin boards and forums. While there have been many different approaches used to pick a BRG for individual projects, there do seem to be a couple of trends. Mike Goodman (who recently retired after almost 50 years of MG repairs and restorations) painted many MGTC and MGTD cars in a BRG formulation that was felt to be close to GN25. This PPG code was 44644 (which is called Cypress Green) and it was a Volvo P1800 sports car color with a Volvo color code of 110. Later on, the PPG code for MG GN25 (which was 43342) was switched to the same pigments and sometimes the exact same formulation is used. If one requests the formulations for 43342 and/or for 44644 from PPG you are never quite sure what you will get -- but they can both result in:

DMC900 Strong White 88.6
DMC936 Blue Shade Phthalo Green 668.0
DMC902 Carbon Black 217.5
DMC905 Lemon Chrome Yellow 172.1

Unfortunately, DMC905 is a lead based pigment and is no longer available (at least in California). This above formula is what Mike Goodman used for years. To my eye, it is a very slight bit too yellow green and not quite dark enough.

The other most common BRG formulation is Jaguar HEN or Jaguar color code 701. (Used on 1987-1990 Jaguars) This is PPG color code 46169 and results in a formulation:

DMC937 Green 605.1
DMC901 Strong Black 341.5
DMC908 Yellow 115.7
DMC904 Blue 31.4
DMC900 Strong White 24.9

This is a very dark BRG with a strong blueish tint. It can require a second look to not think it is black – particularly if it is not in direct sunlight. This is a true Jaguar color and quite popular on XKE’s and on XK120 and XK140 cars. To my eye, on cars like an Austin Healey or an MGA it looks too dark.

In 1991 Mazda built a commemorative edition of the Miata and it was painted British Racing Green. It is Mazda paint code HU. Since it is a more recent automobile, the color formulation is available from many manufacturers. The PPG code is 47037 (called Neo Green) and the DCC formulation is:

DMC937 Green 671.2
DMC901 Strong Black 396.9
DMC900 Strong White 41.4
DMC919 Yellow 5.7
DMC918 Yellow 1.0

This is a gorgeous dark BRG and it looks great on more modern British sports cars. For instance, I believe it is the best choice for a British Racing Green colored Jensen Healey. (Be careful not to end up with the 2001 special edition Mazda Miata British Racing Green. The 2001 version is a modern metallic color and not appropriate for anything.)

One thing to notice is that the more commonly chosen BRG formulations listed above have either four or five pigment tints used in their formulas. It appears that with BRG this is critical. When I used the computer to “match” the period painted samples of BRG that I had collected, I often got a suggested formulation with 12 or more tint ingredients. The color may have come out a match, but the paint was dull and lifeless with no kick. I gave up on the computer system and set about adapting the PPG codes 44644 and 43342 into a modern lead free formulation. In the course of all this testing, we mixed up 19 different formulations. Each was mixed with the hardeners, sprayed, sanded, waxed and evaluated.

A few observations. BRG covers a very subtle range of acceptability. It is easy for the colors to get muddy, lifeless and drift towards military olive drab. It is easy for them to slide into a blue black that is almost not a green at all except under very direct sunlight. All of these colors are attempting to emulate obsolete formulations that are in turn revised as the laws governing paint continue to change. The revised formulas that target the BMC and British Leyland colors tend to go too yellow or they go dull. The revised Jaguar type colors tend to go too blue.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Here's what I used when I restored my '57 TR3 in Pearl White. Shows a code for BRG from '53 to '60. Scroll down to response #13 for the chart. Sherwin Williams may be able to help...

TR Paint Charts

Im looking for paint charts for complete 2-3A range including any export only colours. Can anybody help?. Ive tried the link to the US VTR club site but this is members only. Regards John

www.tr-register.co.uk

 

[CJD]

The color I used is a darker version used on Jaguars, PPG code 46169. It's a chameleon color, in that under different lighting it appears different shades, from light BRG to almost black:

 

[groupdeville]

I have tiny bits of original green on my '54 TR2. It is lighter and brighter than many of the later BRGs, and without as much blue as many later BRGs have (looking at you, Mazda...). I annoyed my local paint shop a whole lot back in the late '90s by spending way too much time looking at their paint chip books, to paint my other TR2 the same color as my the '54. At the time, the color chip book that had the greatest variety of chip colors was for Glasurit. Since they were European car-oriented, the Glasurit book had many colors which covered cars not normally seen in the USA.

Long story short, and going entirely from memory: The closest color that I found to the original '54 BRG was 1967-1968 Fiat #388 "Amazon Green"? or just "Dark Green"? (Ditzler #43920). The Piggott "Original TR2/TR3/TR3A" book has a photo of a similar color on Pages 11 and 35. It is an unrestored car, but may have had paint work. The page 35 photo is particularly good, and shows how much lighter the '50s BRG was than that of the later cars - and Piggott comments on the shade in the photo caption.

Sadly, the fellow painting the car I was working on only wanted to shoot PPG-brand paint, and PPG had dropped the #388 Fiat color formula information by the late '90s. So, second choice was a 1971 or 1972-era Fiat color, which could still be mixed in PPG paint. It was Fiat Code #317 "Bottle Green" (Verde Bottiglia) Ditzler #44703, with some modification - I think a little yellow was added to approximate the correct color. It was OK, but still a little too blue to be dead-on correct.

 

[mctriumph]

Having painted dozens of LBC's in the last 55 years. I can say with some certainty the the original formulas are not only
lost to time but they do NOT translate to todays modern synthetic pigments. BRG was never a single color but varied
from Marque to Marque . For the most part there is nothing new under the sun, and all colors are still available somewhere
if you did around. My brand was Sikkens and we had a mapping book that had the entire span of each solid color.There were
several pages filled with "BRG" from light to dark. You had only to make your best "WAG" and live with it as the best that
could be done.
General motors is using Triumph signal red today on several models
MD

 

[glemon]

Having painted dozens of LBC's in the last 55 years. I can say with some certainty the the original formulas are not only
lost to time but they do NOT translate to todays modern synthetic pigments. BRG was never a single color but varied
from Marque to Marque . For the most part there is nothing new under the sun, and all colors are still available somewhere
if you did around. My brand was Sikkens and we had a mapping book that had the entire span of each solid color.There were
several pages filled with "BRG" from light to dark. You had only to make your best "WAG" and live with it as the best that
could be done.
General motors is using Triumph signal red today on several models
MD

Agree, it is not only the pigments and formulas, but modern paint is much different. I paint with a single stage urethane, it still looks different, though not as "wrong" (to my eyes) as a modern base coat clear coat on an old car British or other.

When I painted my TR4A the PPG urethane enamel was a newer product. I tried to get the body supply shoo to match my Triumph Racing Green on my TR4a. The first half gallon was not really to my satisfaction. I took it back and they said the spent quite a bit of time messing with it. They said they wanted to support the new product. I ended up with what I thought was a very good match on the color and an extra quart of paint as they had to add a couple times when it got too dark. Wish I had saved the formula, it was long ago, I had the paint can with the tag on it for some time, but now long gone.

I know it is not a match for the OP's TR3, but to me Jaguar BRG is too dark, MG BRG too light, and Triumph RG is just right.

Also thanks, didn't know GM was using Triumph Signal Red. Somebody said it was close to an old Porsche red as well if I am remembering right.

 

[mctriumph]

Stopped into my old shop for a second today ,dusted off the color map books (Sikkens/Azko-Nobel ) The primary
formula for BRG in the last 20 years is 448 H2 .This is a map number that lets the color be mixed in the desired product
(single stage/base clear). I shot Lessonal (a Sikkens side brand). 2 other colors got honorable mention ,450 G5 and 452 G5
Paints are a competitive product and numbers like this are not easily crossed to another brand . My highly prejudiced opinion
is Sikkens or Lessonal are great products they outlast most of their competitors.
I would add that these colors are somewhat lighter that the tr2 shown(jag BRG) and we used them on several tr4's over the years
Mad dog

 

[DrEntropy]

Also thanks, didn't know GM was using Triumph Signal Red. Somebody said it was close to an old Porsche red as well if I am remembering right.

Porsche color would have been "Guards Red" IIRC.

 

[psutr3]

Does anyone know the paint code for British Racing Green on a 1954 TR-2?

According to Bill Piggott, Original TR, p.37 the color codes were Dockers-BF 5092,5761,5531,CGG40 or 65; HILUX M-048-2855;Pinchot-JohsonPJ428HS or428LB. He grouped these for Tr2-3B colors (or colours) without differentiation. I suspect those companies are long gone but a restoration shop may be able to shed more light on the matter. I suspect that the earlier paint code relate to the earlier years. On p 35 he does show a small mouth TR3 with a lighter shade of BRG than I am used to. I chose a somewhat darker shade for my TR3B,because I like the color and because the body tub was already painted BRG when I got it, with no effort to research a shade for the TR3B, if BRG was even offered for that auto. According to Piggott it was not.
Gary

 

[NutmegCT]

hmm - does anyone else remember the story that "British Racing Green" originally was just left-over WW2 British Army vehicle paint. If so, there was no "standard" BRG.

 

[psutr3]

Does anyone know the paint code for British Racing Green on a 1954 TR-2?

Just came across a note that says the Ditzler code for BRG described as dark green was 42487. Didn’t give exact years.
Gary