front wheel bearings

[tomshobby]

Some of you may know that I have been working on this for several months. Thought it was going to be finished a long time ago and it still is not. Would you believe that some of the bearings recommended by others, and by myself, have been discontinued. So I still have some work to do. But I think what I have found to this time is important enough to post.

After looking at what I have found I would appreciate any solutions or sources for bearings that actually fit. I say after looking at what I have found simply because this has become big enough of a project with out spending more time on things already covered. I hope you understand.

So, here it is. https://smithtr6.com/bearings.htm

I did the text this morning so please forgive typing and grammatical errors. Just let me know of any glaring ones so I can correct them.

Just one other thing. Contact every bearing company and supplier and raise H*** so they fix this.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

now my head hurts. :wink:

Thanks for keeping us posted.

 

[nomad]

Very interesting. The last front end job I did I used old bearings since they were tighter than the new ones sourced from the usual suspects. Indian I believe. I have a bunch of hubs that came in a parts deal a few years ago. Several of these hubs are damaged from the half race outer bearing race having turned in the hub so I am trying to get by without using the half race outer bearing.
Seems like an oportunity for someone to make a modified hub and bearing kit to get around the problem.
KA.

 

[Guest]

IIRC, I found a tapered bearing listing in a catalog not that log ago.

(by catalog, I mean a REAL catlog like BCA National.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

We've ben running tapered front wheel bearings on Spridget race cars for decades, Winners Circle has the correct ones in stock. No mods needed to the hubs.

 

[bill_young]

IIRC, I found a tapered bearing listing in a catalog not that log ago.

(by catalog, I mean a REAL catlog like BCA National.

The Timken catalog also lists a tapered roller in their catalog for the Spridget, the problem is that it doesn't fit correctly. They've changed the design of the inner race radius as Tom showed and they don't fit even though the catalog lists them for that application. We've (Tom, Peter, and myself) have been down that road, that's the reason for his post. I modified the bearings to fit on my car but the manufacturer should make the bearing correctly if they're going to list it for an application, that's what we're trying to tell them, and they're really not listening. What Tom is showing is the problem areas and the potential solutions.
Hap, I haven't tried the bearings from Winner's Circle, but hear as you say that they fit fine. Is that with a stock spindle or with the replacement spindle pressed into the original swivel axle? The reason I ask is the problem area seems to be the radius between the spindle and the swivel axle which would be different with the replacment spindle.

 

[tomshobby]

This morning I have contacted about 30 bearing manufacturers. ONE has responded that they might be able to help. I will call them later today.
I still have about 40 companies on my list to contact.

 

[jvandyke]

A thousand thanks for your efforts. I have play in my front wheels and suspect bearings but certainly don't want to put in the "wrong ones" or try to do major re-engineering if I don't have to. I wonder if Moss or VB care that they are selling critical parts that don't fit right? Wouldn't they have a liability concern if there were injuries resulting from sudden castestrophic wheel failure due to one of "their" products and it could be shown that they were incorrect and they knew it?

 

[v8mgbal]

I got the bearings from winners circle and they fit and work great and no spacer used so I would recomend there's.

 

[jvandyke]

I got the bearings from winners circle and they fit and work great and no spacer used so I would recomend there's.

I wonder where they are getting them from. If they're correct, problem solved. No? I didn't re-read everything to check if the Winner's Circle ones were already checked out. Do you still have a box they came in or record of markings on them or something?

 

[Trevor Jessie]

OK, I know bearing steel is VERY hard, but how difficult would it be to correct the radius?

 

[tomshobby]

A thousand thanks for your efforts. I have play in my front wheels and suspect bearings but certainly don't want to put in the "wrong ones" or try to do major re-engineering if I don't have to. I wonder if Moss or VB care that they are selling critical parts that don't fit right? Wouldn't they have a liability concern if there were injuries resulting from sudden castestrophic wheel failure due to one of "their" products and it could be shown that they were incorrect and they knew it?

Check the web page I posted. One of the "original" drawings has information to correct loose bearings. McMaster-Carr has the needed shims.

I am not an attorney, didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn. But I have wondered the same question.

 

[tomshobby]

OK, I know bearing steel is VERY hard, but how difficult would it be to correct the radius?

Jessie, It is actually possible to hard machine them. My brother routinely machines steel in the same hardness range. So I asked an engineer at Timken the question.
This is the response I received;
"Tom,

In response to your question regarding tapered roller bearing hardness, the hardness spec is 58 to 63 Rc. Now I must advise you do not alter the tapered roller bearings in anyway. If you do you run the risk of creating stress risers in the product which may lead to cone cracking or rib separation. I did check our catalog and found we have bearings listed for 1960-1980 M.G. Midget front wheel to be part numbers 30205M and 30303 with seal part number 471192."

The 30205M bearing is one of the worst fits and is shown on my web page.

 

[tomshobby]

I received this message this afternoon;

"Tom -
I did not read your full document for technical accuracy or completeness but it would seem that you fully understand what you are trying to do and the technical implications of your choices. Your analysis is sound.

You have identified multiple ways of 'fixing' the problem and you understand that, short of having the correct bearing, all of these methods have their problems in that they introduce more complexity into
an already complex assembly. You recognize that the more parts there are the more potential for error there is.

To have a custom bearing made is one solution and another would be to make a new axle with the radius of the available bearings as you identified in your summary. A new axle with a smaller radius will create a stress point that did not exist before so a change in material or other metal process may be required also.

Sue is correct that EDT does not have the product that you need but Jeff at LMS will either be able to assist you or he will be able to make another referral to get you pointed in the right direction.

You are most of the way to solving the problem because you have it identified but I wish you the best in your search for the right product.

It is always nice to see that someone takes care of the legacy cars on the road.

Have a good evening.

Carl Klinge
Engr Mgr
EDT Corp"

I (Tom) contacted Jeff this afternoon and am waiting for a response. Maybe, just maybe........