Newbie looking at a '67 Austin FX4 Taxi...

[53ryder]

Hello-

Saw an ad for a 1967 Austin FX4 London Taxi. It "runs and drives great, but smokes a bit". Now this is an almost 50 year old car. Owner didn't mention the mileage, but it's probably 'gone over' several times?!? (200,000 miles). So I'm not surprised it smokes a little. Owner says he has owned it 12 years, and it started 'smoking' a couple of years ago. He says at start it smokes some then as the engine warm up the smoke diminishes some but is still visible. I have yet to go see the car.

I was wondering is a 'smoking' diesel engine a fatal flaw or rather more a sign of old age, or both? The owner did say he has never had the engine pulled out of the body and opened up to see what the problem is (worn rings?). The owner has dropped his price taking into consideration whoever buys it will most likely be spending money on the engine before long.


Any ideas before I go to see it?



Glenn Ryder
Brier, WA

 

[NutmegCT]

Hi Glenn - a friend sent me this "diagnostic chart" on diesel engine smoke symptoms. Smoke color, and when it appears, are the big clues.

SMOKE COLOR

Basically there are 3 types of smoke emitted from a diesel engine: black, blue and white.

Black smoke:

Black smoke is the most common emitted from diesel engines and indicates incomplete combustion of the fuel. Black smoke causes can vary widely and include ..
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Dirty or worn fuel injectors
· Over fuelling
· Faulty turbocharger, or turbo lag
· Faulty or dirty exhaust gas recycling (EGR) system
· Incorrect valve clearance
· Incorrect fuel to air ratio
· Dirty or restricted air cleaner systems
· Over loading the engine
· Poor fuel quality
· Cool operating temperatures
· High altitude operation
· Excessive carbon build-up in combustion and exhaust spaces

Black smoke can occur across the entire operating range, but is usually worst under full power, or during the lag before the turbocharger boosts air supply to match the fuel usage such as in the early stages of acceleration and during gear changes. Moderate turbo lag smoke is acceptable; otherwise black smoke should be hardly visible in a correctly running engine.

Blue smoke:

Blue smoke is caused by engine lubricating oil burning. The oil can enter the combustion chamber from several sources including:

· Worn valve guides, or seals
· Cylinder &/or piston ring wear
· Cylinder glaze
· Piston ring sticking
· Incorrect grade of oil .. too thin and getting past rings, or valves guides
· Fuel dilution of the oil, making it too thin.

Blue smoke is often evident at cold start, which can reflect reduced oil control due to carbon fouling deposits around the piston rings and/or cylinder glaze. Blue smoke should not be evident at any stage.
An engine may burn oil without the evidence of blue smoke, because good compression burns oil quite cleanly, however, it is not acceptable for any new engine, or engine in good internal condition to burn large amounts of lubricating oil.

White smoke:

White smoke is caused by raw, un-burnt fuel passing into the exhaust stream. Common causes include:
· Incorrect fuel injection timing
· Defective fuel injectors
· Low cylinder compression

Low cylinder compression may be caused by leaking valves, sticking piston rings, ring wear, cylinder wear, or cylinder glaze. When white smoke occurs at cold start and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing.

Continuous evidence of white smoke indicates a mechanical defect, or incorrect fuel timing.

Something I'd suggest - take a friend who understands diesel engines along with you. Maybe even hire an expert for an hour. Rebuilding engines requires "resources" (time and money!). You may enjoy it - but ...

Also, you need to learn the maintenance history of the car.

If the car is otherwise strong (body and mechanicals), you may have a winner.

Tom M.

 

[53ryder]

Thanks very much for the info Tom! Would of never thought about what color the smoke is as an indicator of what issues there may be.


Glenn

 

[paul9999]

Hey Glenn,

I have a 65 Fx4 and it smokes...but I am assuming it is a combination of "old tech" diesel and old engine parts.
Would be interested in your findings - might even have a go at mine once the snow disappears!

cheers

Paul

 

[53ryder]

Hi Paul!

I've never owned a diesel car and/or truck. So it's all new to me. I have yet to see the car, so I'll wait until to make any other comments.



Glenn

 

[53ryder]

Will be looking at this '67 FX4 later this morning! Will take some pictures.

Glenn

 

[NutmegCT]

Good luck Glenn!

If you need help in posting photos, let us know.

Suggestion: before you commit to buying or not buying, take along someone who knows how to evaluate old cars and diesel engines.

Tom M.

 

[JPSmit]

Good luck Glenn!

If you need help in posting photos, let us know.

Suggestion: before you commit to buying or not buying, take along someone who knows how to evaluate old cars and diesel engines.

Tom M.

Or at the very least take someone who can bring a dose of reality if you get too many stars in your eyes!

 

[NutmegCT]

Or at the very least take someone who can bring a dose of reality if you get too many stars in your eyes!

:thumbsup:

 

[JPSmit]

Have been Watching the "Look at Life" series over the last few days - saw this - earlier than yours but still...

 

[NutmegCT]

Wow - an average fare (1960) of between 5 shillings and 7/6. How times have changed.

 

[53ryder]

For better or worse this trip is a 'look see' only. I have about 5 more paychecks worth of overtime to earn before I could buy it (price of car, taxes, registration, insurance, etc). The Mrs has made it clear no loans from the 'house'. Nevertheless off I go.

Glenn

 

[53ryder]

Just got back. Well someone else here told me about 'rust' issues, and the Haynes Book on the Black Cab, I bought, also warned about rust. Anyways I walked around the car spotting surface rust on door edges and the boot (trunk?). So I grabbed a piece of cardboard I brought with me and laid it beside the car and peeked under the body. On the drivers side near the leading edge of the front door there's plenty of rust on the frame. Now I walk around to the passenger side and looked. at the same place, the leading edge of the front door underneath there is rust so bad there's a hole in frame about the size of a quarter in the frame so I can see the same size hole on the other side of the frame. Ouch!

So the owner has stored this car at his son's house, where we met, outside unprotected since September. Well it rains here in Washington state just a fair piece. The interior smelled damp and mildew. the headliner dripped of rainwater.

When he started it up billows of white smoke blew out the exhaust. To be fair as the engine warmed up the smoke, still white, did taper off considerably. As we did a test drive I didn't notice any smoke at all.

So between the rust issues, the wet interior and the smoking engine I thanked him for his time and drove home. I think I'll pass on this one. I have never driven a right-hand steering car...until today. That was cool!



Still looking-

Glenn

 

[NutmegCT]

"the headliner dripped of rainwater."

Yikes - not a good sign. Combined with those body and engine issues - just "pass on by".

Keep looking.

Have you decided on the type of vehicle you're targeting? Classic sedan, sports car, etc.?

Tom M.

 

[53ryder]

Something British. There's a Moriis minor a few miles from that looks like a 'cutie' from the pictures. Custom paint, I'd rather a stock color. The interior looks nice and done. Might take a look, might not.

Glenn

 

[Cabbie]

Hi Glenn, My husband and I did purchase this cab and I truly appreciate finding your post today. It has given me a bit more insight to the cab's background. I do agree, she is in pretty rough shape. My hopes are that my husband and I can keep her running and do some restoration. She is for fun, so expectations are a bit low on our side, however, I can definitely see potential in her.

My brother hasn't had a chance to come out and verify the smoke situation, however, it does disappear quickly. Do you think it is from the starting fluid burning off? Once the engine switches to the diesel the smoke goes away. We didn't observe any further smoke of any color during the 20 minute ride. She rides like an old yellow school bus and the novelty factor is off the chart. The fact she has the original meter in her makes her a great piece even if just parked.

Do you have any other observations that we can tuck away for the future? My first goal is to get the window seals replaced and then go from there. I did see the gap in the passenger door and will take another look based on information above.

We are still assessing the vehicle and I just downloaded a manual that has a key to all the dash toggles so just getting to know her will be a lot of fun.

Have a great day and again, I appreciate this thread as every piece of information is key when putting together a history and plan going forward. Kristine