Denis Welch Aluminum Sump and H/C Oil Pump clearance

[jcsb]

Has anyone installed the Denis Welch Aluminum Sump and H/C Oil Pump? Just wondering how much you needed to take off the oil pump. From measuring the clearance I have now it appears I need to remove .315". Just wondering how much other had to remove.
John

 

[CLEAH]

John,

Just curious. What part of the oil pump do you need to take almost a third of an inch off of, and why?

 

[jcsb]

John,

Just curious. What part of the oil pump do you need to take almost a third of an inch off of, and why?

Pick up tube. The aluminum sump is thicker than the original sump yet the same basic outside dimensions. The high capacity pump appears slightly deeper too, but not sure about that. So there is an interference between the inside bottom of the sump and the pump.
John

 

[Randy Forbes]

Just my opinion, so if your mind is already made up, you can ignore me...

A friend of mine and I were talking about Healeys (he restores them, Morgans & Triumphs for a living) and aluminum sumps; neither of us could ever recall seeing a Healey that did not have a dented oil pan. Collectively, our history of Healeys goes back over seventy-five (>75) years, and both of us worked (or still works) on Healeys on a daily basis. Neither of us would even consider an aluminum sump, unless a thick steel plate was utilized to protect it__negating any weight savings and blocking any cooling air flow.

If a steel oil pan meets with an immoveable object, it will dent, and if severe enough, you can bash it out. The same cannot be said of aluminum, as it will crack/shatter, with an immediate impact on your oil level...

 

[HealeyRick]

Randy,

Sounds like how I located the Cal Custom finned aluminum oil pan on the SBF motor. Put a piece of plywood across the bottom of the chasiss and make sure everything is above that. If it hangs below the chassis rails, you're going to have a problem sooner or later.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Randy,

Sounds like how I located the Cal Custom finned aluminum oil pan on the SBF motor. Put a piece of plywood across the bottom of the chasiss and make sure everything is above that. If it hangs below the chassis rails, you're going to have a problem sooner or later.

Including the engine in my car, the one for the car, and a spare 3000, all of three (3) them have beat to death oil pans. The one that's on the car was straightened out, but it has scars. In stock configuration, the original oil pan doesn't hang lower than the frame rails, but yet they look like they do :highly_amused:

 

[Michael Oritt]

If a steel oil pan meets with an immoveable object, it will dent, and if severe enough, you can bash it out. The same cannot be said of aluminum, as it will crack/shatter, with an immediate impact on your oil level...


Plus if you actually manage to poke a hole in a steel pan you can have it easily repaired by anyone with a torch.
Not so aluminum.

 

[jcsb]

I have a 1/4" aluminum plate designed to protect the sump. While I appreciate the insight, I plan on using the sump. Just trying to see who else has done this mod. The pan is the same height as the original and if I want additional clearance I can machine the fins. I'm an accomplished welder so I don't think welding is an issue. The best thing to do is protect the pan, whether it's steel or aluminum.
John

 

[bob hughes]

With the DW high out put pump you are going to have to reduce by at least the 0.3 inches. I will have to check up exactly how much from Bill Rawles ( I did not have the courage ) Then I had to flatten the filter to get the sump on.

A note to remember here, in my experience when adding the oil, 12 pints will take you above the level on the dip stick, 8 pints came up to the mark. I could not find any one from DW that could satisfactorily answer my questions on this, neither could Bill for that matter other than he told me that some of the racers start out with 18 pints in the engine.



Bob

 

[DerekJ]

On the refilling issue I find that mine takes about 5 and a quarter litres.

 

[bluegrass john]

Does anyone know a source now providing a suitable steel oil pan for the 6 cylinder healeys??

Thanks,
John

 

[jcsb]

With the DW high out put pump you are going to have to reduce by at least the 0.3 inches. I will have to check up exactly how much from Bill Rawles ( I did not have the courage ) Then I had to flatten the filter to get the sump on.

A note to remember here, in my experience when adding the oil, 12 pints will take you above the level on the dip stick, 8 pints came up to the mark. I could not find any one from DW that could satisfactorily answer my questions on this, neither could Bill for that matter other than he told me that some of the racers start out with 18 pints in the engine.



Bob

Hi Bob,
Thanks. It appears my measurements were correct.
John

 

[bj8bn2]

You also need to shorten the dip stick. You will see new exposed surface above the rubber cap - cut that much off. I confirmed the need to do this with the DW gang.

 

[dougie]

Does anyone know a source now providing a suitable steel oil pan for the 6 cylinder healeys??

Thanks,
John

Give Tom a call, he might have one ready to go. https://tomsimport.com/new/index.asp?services

 

[bob hughes]

You also need to shorten the dip stick. You will see new exposed surface above the rubber cap - cut that much off. I confirmed the need to do this with the DW gang.

Woa up there, it may not be necessary to shorten the dip stick, I did not have to cut any off on my BJ7, tho' I was advised that I should. Try it first and see how it goes. And just for the record 8 British pints came up to the original mark on the stick, I have added in more.



Bob

 

[CLEAH]

And just for the record 8 British pints came up to the original mark on the stick, I have added in more.



Bob

No doubt 8 pints will get you pretty lubricated, but I never knew it was also effective in the sump! What will you guys over there think of next?

 

[DerekJ]

My understanding is that the mark on the dipstick would be measuring the level of the oil in relation to the crank shaft and therefor should remain a constant whichever sump is being used. I don't see what shortening the dipstick would achieve.

 

[bob hughes]

I don't see what shortening the dipstick would achieve

It is alleged that the dip stick hits the bottom of a new Ali sump, ( it also came from the DW people) I personally have not experienced this on my BJ7 29F engine, but other engines may differ.



Bob

 

[Frameman]

I believe there is a misunderstanding about the aluminum oil pans provided by Dennis Welch racing. first and foremost these pans are at least 10 X the weight of the original steel pans if not more. There were designed this way to strengthen the lower engine block. Some have said they have installed the oil pan and not shortened the pick up tube but I wonder if they have not provided enough clearance between the pick up tube screen and the pan. this could cause the pump to cavitate.
All 6 cylinder oil pans sit lower than the main chassis rails unless it is on a Jule chassis.
With a Jule chassis the oil pan is protected because our rails are deeper so the pan does not sit lower than the main chassis rail.
To protect your oil pan, I would recommend putting one of the protection plates offered by the usual suppliers.
Martin