Copper Brake Lines?

[vettedog72]

Polished copper lines with brass fittings may look good but are they safe?

 

[Don Elliott]

They are very common in UK but I have heard reports that they are banned in North America.

 

[RomanH]

I have been told by people more knowlegable than myself to never use pure copper tubing for brake lines! The copper is too soft and can not handle the pressure required for proper braking. The copper will expand under high pressure then return to normal when the pressure is removed. This cycling will fatigue the lines and they will fail!
The "copper" brake pipe sets I have seen is an alloy and not pure copper.
I have no experience with them. Maybe someone else has used them.

 

[Keoke]

That is correct RAH63, the current "copper" brake lines sold by the usual suspects are closer to brass than they are to pure copper. ---Keoke

 

[JamesWilson]

Here in the UK the cheapest ones are made of copper, and it seems to be used fairly widely. However, its considered not so good as copper-nickel alloy lines, generally known as "Kunifer" and these can be bought pre-cut or as rolls of tubing. Oddly enough, Bundy tubing which I understand is common or required in the USA, is unknown for these applications here, thugh it can be bought from industrial supllies outlets.

 

[Guest]

The brake pipe set I bought from Moss seems to be the copper alloy with the brass fittings. Went in nicely, the tubing is easy to hand bend to get the proper fit, no need for a tubing bender. I replaced every line in the car with the complete set from Moss. Haven't had any problems with it whatsoever in the 4 years they've been on the car.

 

[aeronca65t]

I think we had this discussion some time ago.
Most of the "copper" brake lines you can get are actually soft, mild steel with a very thin copper cladding. This helps in corrosion resistance, and also helps the line seal if used in a double flare-the copper cladding deforms and seals on the brass seat.
There is also "copper-alloy" tubing which is close to the bursting strength of steel lines when new and is better than steel after about 5 years (because it doesn't corrode).
I'm not sure which stuff Moss sells, but both are fine in my view.

 

[sparkydave]

I've not heard of pure copper brake lines, but I'd have to agree that's not something you want. The kit Moss sells is made of copper/nickel alloy, and claim to be superior to steel lines. I used that kit and I have no complaints. Easy to bend, fit perfectly, and no corrosion.
-Dave

 

[Guest]

Ditto

Bill

 

[LastDeadLast]

Or there's stainless steel:

https://www.classictube.com/index.asp

 

[Alan_Myers]

Hi,

Yeah, I think most "copper" kits you might get are actually going to be copper/nickel alloy. I too have not seen pure copper brake lines, and certainly wouldn't use them. Too soft.

The copper/nickel lines are about the easiest type to work with, bending and flaring.

Even with copper/nickel I had some concerns about the pipe's softness, that the lines might be vulnerable to any road debris, especially at the more exposed points. So, I fitted with rubber covers as a precaution (fuel hose, I think), for about the last foot of each outboard end. That meant trimming off the pre-flared end and re-flaring it, but that's an easy job if you have a simple flaring tool.

Some of the lines in copper/nickel kits are too long, probably designed to service several different models. The extra length can be coiled, if you don't want to cut and resize.

I didn't like the plastic pipe mounting clips that came in the kit, so didn't use them. I use rubber-lined hose clamps, but the original style clips work well too.

The coated steel lines are much more common and are what was originally on my TR4. They are harder to work with, and will rust over time. But, I think all come with some sort of protective coating and you can always spray an additional clearcoat over them before installing, if you wish. If originality is a concern, mild steel lines, probably available from the local auto parts store if you don't mind cutting and fitting, are what you want. The end fittings specific for TRs can be hard to find, so it might be necessary to reuse the ones on your current lines.

One of these days I want to install a set of stainless steel brake lines. I think these would be ideal in terms of strength and corrosion resistance. But there is extra cost and that they are harder to shape and flare than any other type. In fact, a pretty expensive professional type of flaring tool is probably required.

There might be some ready to fit s/s brake line kits available for certain TR models, maybe from Stainless Steel Brakes, or some other vendor. I recall seeing something about this a year or two ago.

While in there replacing lines, don't forget the hoses. I recommend stainless steel braided type, they will definitely improve the feel of TR brakes. If you don't like the look, they can be wrapped with coiled wire wrap plastic. In one instance, on a motorcycle, I had a s/s line made up with black rubber cover that really makes it look like the original.

Oh, and be sure to clip off and keep most of the ends off your old brake pipes, if in any kind of condition. Some of them can be pretty hard to find in the U.S.

And, if you do any flaring, note that some of the ends on TRs (at any female fittings) are "bubbles", not full flares.

Finally, I was surprised to find the copper/nickel brake pipe kit didn't include a pipe to replace the clutch line. It really should be included. You can buy copper/nickel in bulk, for less than the kits, but I didn't want to buy a large roll to do one short line. So I made one up in coated steel.

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L

 

[piman]

Hello all,

as I have said in earlier discussions, I have been using pure copper brake lines on all of my cars for the last twenty years .
I would not use them if I was not convinced of their safety.
The only difference to steel is that the lines need more clips to secure them.

Alec

 

[martx-5]

[ QUOTE ]
...

There might be some ready to fit s/s brake line kits available for certain TR models, maybe from Stainless Steel Brakes, or some other vendor. I recall seeing something about this a year or two ago.



[/ QUOTE ]

Alan,

Click on the link provided by LastDeadLast in the post above yours. They list pre-bent stainless steell lines for the TR's.

 

[jsneddon]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello all,

as I have said in earlier discussions, I have been using pure copper brake lines on all of my cars for the last twenty years .
I would not use them if I was not convinced of their safety.
The only difference to steel is that the lines need more clips to secure them.

Alec

[/ QUOTE ]

And as before... LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

 

[Guest]

I was thinking of going with stainless when I did mine. I was working in a gas chromatography lab at the time and I had access to all the stainless steel tubing I would want (we use it to plumb in gas services for our instrumentation). However, I didn't want to be bothered with the flaring thing, seemed like it was much more involved with stainless than other types of metals due to the hardness. It was far easier to just buy the Moss kit and install it. As it was I did end up using stainless for all my engine compartment hard fuel lines, maybe some day I'll do the tank to engine compartment lines the same way.

 

[waltesefalcon]

The copper nickel alloy has very good properties versus both corrosion, and tensil strength. The copper clad steel lines would also be a good choice.

 

[Banjo]

I can't believe I'm jumping into this, once again, boiling pot.
Please take no offense, I'm not trying to contridict anyone.
I truly believe that those of you in the UK have referred to them as just "copper" for so long that it's not thought of as an alloy anymore. But I believe if you do some research you will find that they in fact are an alloy.
Use this site https://www.dimebank.com/tech/BrakePlumbing.html as a starting point then make an informed decision on what ever information you can find.
If you find some proof of them being 100% pure copper, then post it (or a link to it) here and I will gladly admit my error.

 

[PeterK]

for all Triumphs... unless you have a solid axle TR4A, in that case you have to bend yerown.

 

[Banjo]

We got the oddballs, don't we. (see signature)

 

[Bugeye58]

FWIW, Cupro-nickel lines are standard on Porsches.
I won't even use pure copper for an oil pressure gauge line. Had one of those break once, and cost me an engine.
No flame intended.
Jeff