Considering 2nd hand engine, advice needed

[Mg_Bizzle]

Im thinking about buying this second hand engine from what seems like a trustworthy bloke.

Its been bored out to 1950cc, Stage 2 head (not unleaded though, will cost about £140 to make unleaded) and a lightened flywheel. Should achieve 113hp at the wheels from the dyno sheet he had.

Its done 30,000 miles and the guy wants £525 (about $1050)

The only thing is the cylinders seem to have slight pitting, is this normal? And does the price seem ok?

 

[Steve_S]

It's hard to tell what is pitting and what is goo, presumably from the head gasket removal. But there should be no pitting of the cylinder walls whatsoever. They should be nice and smooth, perhaps with light scoring but nothing deep. I also wonder why he went through all the expense of building a performance engine without converting to hardened valve seats.

 

[tony barnhill]

What would it cost you to build the same engine?

 

[Mg_Bizzle]

Thats what im going to work out tomorrow. How much would it cost you in the USA?

 

[tony barnhill]

Not as much as he's asking for that engine - if I do the labor myself!

 

[rick_ingram]

Rule of thumb ****used**** to be about USD $1000 per cylinder for a professionally rebuilt engine..ready to go..this obviously varied according to what shoppe did the work...and what "performance" the engine was built up to....

It's been a while since I rebuilt a B engine....so I'm not up on what costs for parts would be....

FWIW

 

[Mg_Bizzle]

Unfortunately I dont have access to a workshop with those kind of machining tools....

After a ring round iv found out it will cost me about double for something similar done to my engine.

My only worry still is the pitting, most people have said its fine as its so high up. I think im probably going to go for it , I dont have the money to upgrade my current engine and iv never seen a 2nd hand modified engine for sale elsewhere.

 

[BOXoROCKS]

I think I'd pass on it. When they do that 1950 piston bit, sometimes the engine castings are not good enough to stretch it that far. That one looks like a bad one.Also look at that head stud,its pretty rusty.

 

[Bugeye58]

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif
The pitted cylinder walls should be enough to make you pass on this one. The pitting extends down well into the sealing area of the rings. I would be surprised if this engine will pass the emissions portion of the MOT inspection.
I think you would only be getting youself in expensive trouble with this. It's already been bored to the maximum, so the block would need to be sleeved to make it even remotely acceptable. I see some rust in the coolant passages, which is not a good thing.
Do yourself a favour and keep looking.
Jeff

 

[Tim_Cressman]

Prior to diverting my career to making beer for a living I was the senior block machining engineer at a GM engine plant.

The pitting to me looks like porosity (trapped gas bubbles under the surface of the casting) created from the casting process. For the most part porosity is common in all castings in a very small quantity. It will lie under the surface of machined finishes or it will become exposed in very small amounts during machining and later during the wear of the surface from normal use. A casting with a well designed mold and the casting process under control will minimize these occurrences. Porosity is common but it is engineered to be very minor close to critical areas such as cylinder bores, block head surfaces and so on.

I would get called three various operations on the machining line and one on the assembly line to look at rejected blocks which ultimately be caused by single pockets of porosity. Our gauges would reject them but they would in reality be false failures. This was from a measuring head of a gauge or a seal of a leak test falling in or not seating properly on the porosity.

We would still scrap these blocks as the testing showed there was a risk excessive thermal stress in these areas. This decision was based on lost foam aluminum casting and the material in the block in question will of course react differently.

Bottom line is as Bugeye58 said because if sealing issues arouse the block has already been bored to the maximum limit you would have no where to go with this block. To many the quantity of porosity looks very excessive well beyond what I would expect to see in any in-spec casting.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[Bugeye58]

Tim: St. Cat's or Tonawonda?
The pitting looked like casting porosity to me as well, hence my "Bored to the max" comment, but I didn't feel qualified enough on the subject to go into depth. Which you have done admirably.
Jeff

 

[Mg_Bizzle]

The picture was very misleading, there is no pitting at all. Only very, very slight scratching. I decided to buy the engine after my fathers friend had a good look over it and had a good chat with the guy.

Someone on another forum has commented on the water passages, but they look ok to me.

What clutch would people recommend I get? The Delphi clutch is the cheapest but is it any good? Iv been recommended the Quinton Hazell clutch...but this was from a shop owner, it is only slightly more then the Delphi. Theres also the much more expensive AP racing clutch.

 

[Bugeye58]

It looks a lot better once all the shmutz was wiped off. However in your last picture, I can see the marking of +040 on the piston. Unless the thing has been stroked, that won't get you to 1950cc's. It only figures out to 1845.
QH clutches are fine.
Jeff

 

[Steve_S]

What happened to that piston? Looks like a valve hit it. Also hard to tell from the photo but it appears to be a raised center piston. Does that thing run on standard fuel?

 

[Bugeye58]

The pistons look as though they have been relieved for valve clearance, but the pockets are cut 90 degrees from the valve positions!
Jeff

 

[Mg_Bizzle]

There Lotus TC pistons, the clearances on the side arr what the Lotus engine would use. Its defo overbored, comes out at 83.4mm on the vernier calipers if I remember correctly.

 

[tony barnhill]

Are you planning on using this engine is a daily driver - on the street?

What's the compression?

 

[Bugeye58]

There Lotus TC pistons,

OK, that makes sense. .040" over on a T/C bore works out to 1950cc, almost on the nose.
That's .090" over on a stock "B" block. Not much room for error, is there.
Jeff

 

[jlaird]

Not in my car thanks. Even I know that is asking for problems.

Nice info Tim, appreciated.

 

[Mg_Bizzle]

Thanks for the confidence guys /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

How many have actually tried this then?