Trouble getting toe in done on BN2

[bighealeysource]

Hey y'all,
Well, cannot seem to get the toe in on my 1956 BN2/100M done right. I made up an alignment tool very similar to one done up by another BCF'er using an aluminum tube with the aluminum vertical pieces on each end to measure the distance from front and back sides of the tires/wheels. Place against the tire and then measure the gap. Problem is, I do this and although not quite to the factory spec of 1/16 to 1/8 toe in, it is obvious when looking at the tires in the wheel wells that one is very definitely pointing out where the other is parallel with the rear tire. So adjust it to where they appear correct visually, and I am way off on the measurements- about 1.5 inches too much toe in ! Could obviously be me and or the tool I made up, but really got me scratching my head. Would using a wooden dowel as a straight edge placed low on each front tire so you can get under the frame in the rear work to measure the toe in ? Seems like it would be easier and leave less chance for error doing it the other way. In my case, the passenger side tire/wheel is the one appearing to be way out more than the driver's side at least visually. And advice, etc really appreciated !
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Mike

 

[Keith_M]

I am curious. Why don't you just set it close enough to drive and then take it to a tire store and have it set professionally? I did this, and my car drives fine, and it only cost $15. I have seen other threads where members have spent a lot of time making alignment tools, so I'm worried that there may be some problem with a professional alignment on these cars.

Or is it just the "I want to do it myself" thing (which I completely respect and occasionally succumb to myself).

Keith

 

[Healey 100]

I would trust your measurements more than your eye. Variations in body work allignment make looking at the wheels to see if their are straight unreliable.

I have set my tow-in with a giant homemade caliper. I mark the tire for the measurement on the rear mid point of the wheel, then push the car forward to measure the same point on the front. This eliminates error due to wheel runout. I roll the car back and forth to repeat the measurement several times. Don't measure unless the car has been on the ground and rolled back and forth first. When the car is lowered after jacking, the front suspension does not immediately settle into its normal running position.

The best indicator of improper tow-in is tire wear. Too much and the outside edges of both front tires wear, too little and the insides go. This happens with just a few thousand miles of driving, I have seen this effect on my Healey.

A good allignment shop can handle a Healey, but many of them are not equipped to handle the wire wheels and absense of specs to set their system. Since the only real adjustment is tow-in, it seems easier to just to do it than explain it to an alignment shop.

Happy Healeying!

 

[johnea]

The car should come to rest from a forward motion. Make sure the wheels are in the straight ahead position (measure from each wheel rim to the main frame rails). Mark the inside of the wheelrims at center height at the front. Measure the distance between those marks, push the car forward half a turn (180 degrees) and measure again on the markings wich should now be at the back. The difference should be 1/8-1/16" more than at the front.
This is how I do it.

 

[Keith_M]

Not trying to be argumentative here (OK, well maybe just a little, but in a good way ). Another advantage of taking it to an alignment shop is that they can measure the castor and camber. I know these can't be set, but given that I did a complete suspension rebuild on a car I had never driven before the rebuild, it was nice to see that they were very close to specs. I'm not sure what I would have done if they weren't, but there's a certain amount of peace of mind knowing that they are where they should be.

The alignment shop I went to was more than happy to take my word for the toe-in specs, and they weren't fazed by the wire wheels at all. In fact, by the end, I had most of the shop helping and admiring the car, and they measured and re-measured several times to be sure things were correct after pushing the car back and forward.

For me at least, it was a lot easier than trying to do it myself.
Keith

 

[tahoe healey]

Many previous posts have stated that there should be no measurable toe in with radial tiers and that the 1/8 in was for bias tires only as radials were not available when the cars were built. If your camber and caster readings are off, you can get an adjustable pivot from sources like BCS in Stockton, CA.

 

[Keoke]

n done on BN2

I am curious. Why don't you just set it close enough to drive and then take it to a tire store and have it set professionally? I did this, and my car drives fine, and it only cost$15.


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[bighealeysource]

Hey y'all,
Thanks for the advice and your thoughts on what to do. Dumb question here, if I take it to a tire store that will do alignment on it, they would of course adjust it the same way, by turning the cross tube, correct? I honestly have not tried anyone down here where I live but doesn't mean there might not be someone out there who would do that minor work with the cross tube. I'll try and let you know what I can get done. For those who went to a tire store, was it one of the majors ? Otherwise I'll do as suggested and drive it on down there and 'git 'er done'.
Happy New Year,
Mike

 

[Keith_M]

I went to a chain tire store (Les Schwab), but I don't think they are in South Carolina. I knew this store would help me because they balanced my wire wheels for me. (This involved modifying an old front wheel hub and nut because the back of the wheel didn't have a machined surface. It took multiple trips to the store and the machine shop.)

For the alignment, I deliberately went at a time when they weren't busy, so there was no pressure to get the job done quickly. I don't think there's any way to set toe-in except with the cross rod, so I don't think that's an issue (but others with more expertise may correct me here). I was allowed to get down in the pit and watch the process, so I'm sure they did it right. I recognize that many large chain stores won't allow this, so it's up to you to find one that will allow it or bend the rules for you. I'm not sure I would have just let them drive my car into the bay and work on it without me there! You just have to find the right store (at the right time) that will work with you a little because it's a classic car.

Hope this helps.
Keith

 

[stinky60]

If you had removed and reinstalled the rear end and springs it would also be wise to have the shop make sure that everything was square and true, while you are getting your front end done, just my thoughts Bob

 

[blueosprey90]

I have an MGA and it is supposed to have zero toe in.

My allignment device is made from a 1" wooden dowell. I drilled a hole in each end and inserted about a 2 1/2 " lag bolt in both ends. So about 2 inches is exposed on each end. The lag bolts can be adjusted in or out with a box wrench. I get an approximate length and start test fitting between the front tires, front and rear halved. If it is tight in the front and loose in the back, I know I have too much toe in and I adjust the tie rods accordingly. Eventually, the wheels get aligned and you can fine tune the device by turning in or turning out the lag bolts. I basically use the widest part of the tire as my contact point. If you are shooting for a 1/8 inch toe in, that would be pretty easy to see. Just adjust to a zero toe in and then bring the front in a little and you should be good to go.

Now of course, if your wheels are way off, you need to start by centering your steering wheel. I'd center the wheel and make whatever adjustments you need by eye to get the wheels pointing more or less straight. Put a 2 x 4 on the ground as an aid if you have to. Just get your steering wheel centered, and your tires generally pointing straight, and then you can do your fine adjustments with the device.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps. I had a big Healey in the early 70s.

 

[RandyHicks]

Mike, by any chance this the former Pete Williams car from CT? The one that did the rally across America?

Please contact me off forum.

 

[bighealeysource]

Hey all,
Just got back from the alignment shop down here in Beaufort,SC and got the toe in set correctly !!!!! Cost a bit more than $15 but well worth it. Caster and camber were good per the specs the shop had for a BN2 and as they specialize on older cars, was thrilled they actually had specs available. Toe in was a good bit off but now within 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. Now, ain't gonna touch it again plus have a good shop for those with an LBC down in the Lowcountry of South Carolina. Thanks to all for your advice and thoughts on trying to correct the problem. Had also put a post on about a shock mount possibly being a bit off but they checked out okay so not going to have to fool with that. Thanks to Bob S. for his referral to Tom's Toys for a part to help with that. Do not need it now.
Regards,
Mike

 

[glemon]

I did the at home to in setting on my BN1 years ago. because of the curves of the body my eyeballing the wheels was pretty much useless and my initial eyeballed setting was way off, but by using homemade measuring tools and trial and error (driving tests and subsequent tweeking) was able to get it right.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Wish I had an extra $5K laying around ...

https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/tru-line-laser-guided-4-wheel-alignment-system-tl-12-p-12167.aspx

 

[Keith_M]

Hey all,
Just got back from the alignment shop down here in Beaufort,SC and got the toe in set correctly !!!!! Cost a bit more than $15 but well worth it. Caster and camber were good per the specs the shop had for a BN2 and as they specialize on older cars, was thrilled they actually had specs available. Toe in was a good bit off but now within 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. Now, ain't gonna touch it again plus have a good shop for those with an LBC down in the Lowcountry of South Carolina. Thanks to all for your advice and thoughts on trying to correct the problem. Had also put a post on about a shock mount possibly being a bit off but they checked out okay so not going to have to fool with that. Thanks to Bob S. for his referral to Tom's Toys for a part to help with that. Do not need it now.
Regards,
Mike

Mike,
Glad to hear that things worked out well.
Keith

 

[BoyRacer]

Mike,
I wish I would have seen this thread earlier. Your toe in tool is an excellent way to correctly set the toe-in. I use a similar device. When the toe-in is correct the tires will appear to tow out. It is an optical illusion. This issue has come up many times over the years with my race car. When you have wider tires and negative chamber, it is even more obvious.
Richard