TR2/3/3A TR3 Engine Noise trouble. New to Triumphs. Granfather's Car. Need Help.

[TRWisco]

Hi, I am new to the forum, kind of. Been lurking here for awhile, trouble is my grandfather's car has developed an engine noise.
So far from what I can tell its coming from the top front of the motor. Its gotten dark here and I don't want to diagnose it in the dark.

So, my grandpa lets me borrow his car. Its his pride and joy. I am the first person he's ever borrowed the car to for a few days.
Its pretty special to me because we never really got along but I've always showed interest in it and after owning a few old and new
BMW's he let me take it.
I do NOT abuse this. I borrow it maybe 6 days total a year.

Car problem time. It sounds like some kind of hollow pinging or dinging sound when the motor revs above 2,000 ish rpm. It doesn't have a pattern,
just random hollow pinging noise from the front of the motor. So far all I know is that this motor is some kind of race spec motor that was built by
some very good triumph engine builder and it was the last engine he did before he died.

This engine has run beautifully for quite some time. at least 6 years if not probably more. I thought it was a bad throwout bearing at first but it
happens withe car in neutral and revving it a bit. He changed the oil recently so I'm wondering if he put in the wrong oil maybe. He's not so good with
his memory anymore,(my grandpa) and he has no patience to wait for me to do it, or anyone else for that matter.

I borrowed the car about 3 weeks ago and there was no noise so its happend rather quickly as he doesn't drive it much.

Any ideas would be helpful. I will for sure be posting here more about the car in the future. Just wish I didn't have to work tomorrow.

Oh and I'm 27 by the way. I am very fortunate to have this opportunity to use this beautiful car.

 

[NutmegCT]

Congrats on having such a great car to play with!

From your description, I'd guess it's the fan randomly hitting some part of the frame. Engine speed can slightly twist the engine on the mounts.

Tom

 

[Kleykamp]

Unfortunately, diagnosing noises without hearing it is problematic. There are so many things possible. The fan being only one of them. In addition, the timing chain tensioner, water pump bearing, generator bushings worn, and the list could go on. Sounds like you may be hesitant to discuss with your grandfather for fear he will be upset with you. If he's been around these cars as much as it sounds, he would surely understand that things go wrong, regardless of who is driving the car, and may likely be able to diagnose the issue right away. Good luck locating the source and fixing it. Hopefully something simple.

 

[TRWisco]

Alright. After some late night searching and looking under the hood this morning. I'm pretty sure it was the water pump pulley being very loose.
I grabbed it and could move it with my hand. So I stuck a ratchet on there and tightened it about 2 to 3 full turns of the nut. got it as tight
as I got it about as tight as I could while holding the pulley in one hand and the other tightening the bolt. It doesn't move anymore.

Going to take it to work here in a few and see if that's the problem. I think it was, I could see where it was hitting the block.

Will update when I get to work.

 

[TRWisco]

At work update.

It seems that the water pump pulley is shot. No matter how much I tighten the bolt the pulley still wobbles.

I am assuming that a new pulley is the answer here? It definitely gets worse the hotter the engine gets.
I tried tightening the belt and that seemed to just make it worse.
I might try taking the nut off and putting a washer between it and the pulley to see if that will tighten it up?

Too bad you can't just go to the parts store and get one.
He has a spare car but I don't know if it has the motor in it.

Guess we'll see what happens. Would it be worth it to put in a new water pump while I'm doing this? It looks fairly simple and the hoses could be replaced anyways.

Thanks for your help.
-Justin

 

[trrdster2000]

TRWisco, not all pumps will come with the pulley, the one you have must be wobbled out and possibly the key is missing. If you get a new pulley, check the belt size as some cars have been converted to 3/8 inch pulley's and not the wide one as original. If push comes to shove I think I have one for the wide belt.
Good luck.

Wayne

 

[TRWisco]

It doesn't have the 3/8ths conversion done to it. The belt that's on there is as wide as my thumb.
I'd like to do that in the future but not right now, It seems you need an electric fan with the belt conversion.

I looked at the moss website and checked out the parts diagram to see what's all there.
I'll loosen the belt and drive it to his house after work and check the spare car for a motor/pulley.
If not I'll order a new pulley and key. I'll also check the pump shaft to see if that's messed up.
Looked like a few of the hoses are starting to show their age too.

 

[JerryVV]

Replace the pump and pulley or you'll just be doing it again and don't over tighten the belt because it will wear the Generator and Water Pump bearings.

 

[TRWisco]

Okay, I'm still at work and working with limited tools but I have the belt off and the nut and washer for the Water pump pulley, the pulley is loose and wiggles around but I can not get it to pull off the water pump. it seems like its stuck on the end where the nut is(but the nut and washer are off). I even tried to pry it a little with a screw driver and its not happening. The washer was a little convex, so I might try putting it on backwards and tightening the nut that way. Other than that thought its like the pulley isn't even for this car. Its very loose. I would have thought it would be tighter, It's as far back as it can go on the shaft too. only have limited time to work on it too, I just started this job a month ago. (I do AutoCAD work for a countertop place)

 

[trrdster2000]

Right now it seems to be the pulley, could it be the bearing in the water pump. Check your water before you go home.

Wayne

 

[Geo Hahn]

I use a homemade puller fashioned from some angle iron and a few bolts:

Goes on the pump like this:

The just tighten the bolts to ease the pulley off.

If you do end up getting a new pump and pulley -- do a trial fit with the pulley tightly in place. For many years the pumps were cast with a small amount of interference between the pump casting and the pulley -- the pulley would scrape (or worse). Solution if this occurs is to just grind away a bit of the pump body to get clearance. It has been a few years since I bought a pump so I do not know if this is still a common problem.

 

[TRWisco]

I can literally grab the pulley with the nut and washer tightened as hard as I can, and wiggle the pulley, a lot. As in there should be no reason that I should not be able to pull it off by hand. I am at a loss right now and have to limp the car home. If it needs a new pump after this I don't really care. There's not much I can do.

 

[CJD]

It sounds like what has happened is the inside surface of the water pump pulley has wallowed out. A good pulley on a good water pump should be a press fit. The pulley is definitely shot and will need replacing. Also, it is very unlikely that the pump shaft is not worn from the wallowed pulley rubbing it that loosely, so a rebuilt water pump will likely be needed.

That's the bad news. The good news is that these are relatively cheap parts that are easy to find around. They are also only about an afternoon's work to replace.

 

[TRWisco]

I'm not so much worried about the cost of the parts, or changing them. We have the tools and knowledge. My father was mechanic at a sports car shop that did MG's to Ferrari's. I usually ask him about this stuff but he was busy and I figured this would be good way to "expose" myself to the forum? IDK,

Update. Limped it to my dad's house on the back roads, getting it up to a good speed and coasting for a while neutral is no fun. especially on these awesome curvy roads.
Still could not get the pulley off the shaft. I don't know why. (It is so loose it should slide off easily it seems.) noticed that the washer was weak and bending when tightened, so i grabbed 2 bigger heavy duty washers and put those on with the old washer and nut and tightened it down as best I could. I actually think I might have just started to strip the threads. But anyways, with the belt on and somewhat tight I fired it up and revved it a bit and ... YAY no more hitting and clanging around.!!!!

So, I drive the car the 20 minutes to my grandparents and they're not home... crap. It looked as though it was gonna rain and I didn't want to leave the car outside with no mention of what happened. So I put it in there garage and left a note about what happened. On the table and told them to call me when they get home. They don't take their cell phones with them anywhere. I feel like crap from breaking the car and not being able to tell them in person what happend but at this point it's almost 7pm and I haven't been home since I left for work. Grab my truck and go home.

They called me and seemed understanding. I have the windshield at my place(was running the brooklands, which is awesome by the way, first time I've done it) so I'm gonna run that over tomorrow and see what he wants to do with the car.

 

[TRWisco]

I hope the picture works. For me its a bit distorted by the front wheel.

 

[NutmegCT]

GREAT LOOKING TR !!!!!

envy envy envy!

 

[TRWisco]

Thanks!. It get a lot of looks and comments. My Grandpa "restored it" maybe 15 years ago.

Its looks good from 20ft away. any closer and any car person will start noticing things. I for one never knew there was metal trim that was supposed to be on the fenders, he has it bondoed smooth.

 

[toysrrus]

"Ouch" on the "Bondo" over where the "Chrome Beading" is supposed to be.

Are all 4 Fenders Bondoed over? Thats a project for another day.

Get the little devil running properly by buying a new Water Pump & Pulley & be done with it. As someone mentioned here; Its really an In-Expensive repair.

Nice looking TR by the way.

Regards, Russ

 

[Kleykamp]

I sure hope you were watching the temp guage while driving around with a inoperable water pump! The wobble on the pulley is probably coming from the shaft and bearing being worn and not the pulley itself. 1) the pulley will likely require some type of puller to get it off the pump, as shown in a previous comment. 2) water pump is likely shot and they are fortunabely not that expensive. 3) pulley may be OK. I suggest to remove the complete water pump and pulley. (one bolt will have to be removed a little at a time as you pull the water pump away from the block)... With a puller, remove the pulley from the pump. At this point you will probably be able to see exactly what the problem is. Get a new pump and pulley ( if needed ) and throw the old one away. You might even want to go for the upgraded water pump that pushes more water through the system. By all means, have fun. Looks like a fun car.

 

[TRWisco]

He originally planned to run the car at Road America that's why he went with the steel wheel and not the set of wires he has. (Yes he has a set of original wire wheels on his parts car. that are in good condition aside from some surface rust. So the bondo over the rear fender bead area kinda makes sense ya know, like why put the beading on if it might get wrecked at some point. However his health started going south when he found out he was diabetic and had gout in his foot, So he just finished the car to drive and enjoy. And that he has.

Look, I'm no dummy when it comes to cars, I've done my own maintenance on my car's since I started driving. (you learn fast when you have no money for someone else to do it for you)

The shaft wasn't moving, the pulley was. I could grab the pulley and it would pivot from the front of the pulley, I watch the shaft. It never wiggled once. The pump itself was replaced a few years ago by my grandfather and knowing him he re-used the nylon lock nut. So the nut must've backed of over the years and the pulley probably wallowed itself out and finally got bad enough to start making noise. That is the best guess that I can make. My dad and I are going over tomorrow and to check it out further. My plan of action so far is to pull the pump and replace it anyways. the shaft is probably all chewed up and the new pulley might not sit on it right.

This all suck as my grandfather is in very poor health, and he just doesn't have the energy to wrench anymore, but that won't stop him from trying. He's a stubborn old Irish man. The stories he could tell could fill a couple books. Maybe that's for another thread.