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Hi All. I am leaning towards switching my '71 powered '68 GT over to a pertronix ignition system. All is stock now.I'm looking for input from anybody who has done this change and what they have experienced as a result - positive or negagtive. Trying to end up with a more reliable driver and am quite tired of adjusting points all the time. Also what coil would I need to change to with this system? Thanks, jonny g
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pertronix electronic ignition
- Thread starter jonny g
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i havent had the cash yet to do the pertronix
conversion, but from what i hear its an excellent
product. reliable and good performance. do a search of the subject. we discussed it before on this forum. as for me i'll use mine with a lucas sports coil(high volt coil).
conversion, but from what i hear its an excellent
product. reliable and good performance. do a search of the subject. we discussed it before on this forum. as for me i'll use mine with a lucas sports coil(high volt coil).
Bret
Yoda
Offline
I just installed the Pertronix Ignitor in my 78 MGB. I also upgraded the Coil to the Pertronix Flame Thrower, a set of up-rated plug wires and rotor cap. All & all it was a easy installation and only took me about a half an hour to do the whole thing and another hour resetting the timing and idle speed.
My only real advice would be to buy yourself a good wire crimper for dressing and terminating the new spade lugs. Just make sure what type of distributor you have before you order your Ignitor and Coil. Because my 78B came equipped with a 45DM4 CEI electronic ignition, it was just a bolt in affaire. But because yours has the points type ignition – you will need to use the plastic gage supplied with the Ignitor kit to set the “air gap” between the module and the sleeve.
I recommend that you loosen the distributor before you start because chances are the car won’t start the first time. Besides your are going to have to re-set you timing anyway. In my case my B wouldn’t turn over the first time. I ended up having someone else turn it over for me while I moved the distributor back and forth until the engine started and then set the timing using a timing light.
Warning! Check the amount of wire slack you leave in the distributor. Too much and it will snag or catch on the moving components. Too little and you wont be able to take full advantage of the advance curve.
The results of the upgrade are amazing! Vast improvement in over all performance, with the most drastic change taking place in the lower torque (1500 to 3500RPMs). Likewise the engine redlines without any of the coaxing or effort needed before the upgrade.
Good Luck!
Bret
My only real advice would be to buy yourself a good wire crimper for dressing and terminating the new spade lugs. Just make sure what type of distributor you have before you order your Ignitor and Coil. Because my 78B came equipped with a 45DM4 CEI electronic ignition, it was just a bolt in affaire. But because yours has the points type ignition – you will need to use the plastic gage supplied with the Ignitor kit to set the “air gap” between the module and the sleeve.
I recommend that you loosen the distributor before you start because chances are the car won’t start the first time. Besides your are going to have to re-set you timing anyway. In my case my B wouldn’t turn over the first time. I ended up having someone else turn it over for me while I moved the distributor back and forth until the engine started and then set the timing using a timing light.
Warning! Check the amount of wire slack you leave in the distributor. Too much and it will snag or catch on the moving components. Too little and you wont be able to take full advantage of the advance curve.
The results of the upgrade are amazing! Vast improvement in over all performance, with the most drastic change taking place in the lower torque (1500 to 3500RPMs). Likewise the engine redlines without any of the coaxing or effort needed before the upgrade.
Good Luck!
Bret
G
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watch out with that sports coil, I have heard that the petronix (an excellent product) doesn't play well with it, and it may smoke the electronics, and may void the warranty. If you feel you need a higher voltage coil, check out the one Petronix sells
John S Farrington
Jedi Warrior
Offline
I have converted a large amount of MGBs and MBAs to tdhe pektronix system. The results have been excellent. I highly recommend it and most any kind of coil will allow poroper functioning. If you change coils, eliminate the external resistor and use a built in resistance coil since you will not need protective ballast in the solid state/no points arrangement. Unless you are looking for the ultimate in performance, you do not need a sport or special coil. Best regards Jack Farrington
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Pertronix recommends a coil with three ohms total resistance for four cylinder cars & 1.5 ohms for six cylinder cars. If you had a ballast the ballast resistance would need to be figured into the total.You can measure the coil primaries with a good ohm meter to decide.
D
D
Tom Warren
Freshman Member
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I installed the Pertronics in my 71 B an have been really pleased with the performance. I am using the Lucas sport coil. Have about 15,000 miles on them with no problems. I always carry a set of points ,condenser, & rotor. I recently purchased another Pertronics module for a spare and left the points & condenser at home. Got the spare unit from Seco Performance center for $79.98 including 8% tax and shipping.
Bret
Yoda
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dave Russell:
Pertronix recommends a coil with three ohms total resistance for four cylinder cars & 1.5 ohms for six cylinder cars.
D<hr></blockquote>
Dave makes a good Point, if you are going to replace the coil as I did, make sure you order the right one.
I'm not sure if Jonny’s 71B has the Ballast resister in it or not. But because my 78B has the Ballast Resister I ordered the Pertronix “1.5ohm” flame-thrower Coil. This is a direct replacment for my stock coil. If you don’t know for sure do like Dave suggested and measure the resistance across the coil.
Another piece of advice: To take advantage of the hotter coil and improved ignition - you'll need to open your spark plug gap. Depending on what type of plugs you have this might vary, so do some experimentation – I ended up at 33mm.
Bret
[ 04-29-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
Pertronix recommends a coil with three ohms total resistance for four cylinder cars & 1.5 ohms for six cylinder cars.
D<hr></blockquote>
Dave makes a good Point, if you are going to replace the coil as I did, make sure you order the right one.
I'm not sure if Jonny’s 71B has the Ballast resister in it or not. But because my 78B has the Ballast Resister I ordered the Pertronix “1.5ohm” flame-thrower Coil. This is a direct replacment for my stock coil. If you don’t know for sure do like Dave suggested and measure the resistance across the coil.
Another piece of advice: To take advantage of the hotter coil and improved ignition - you'll need to open your spark plug gap. Depending on what type of plugs you have this might vary, so do some experimentation – I ended up at 33mm.
Bret
[ 04-29-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
I know I'm a little late jumping into this one, but I thought I'd add my two cents. I recently installed a Pertronix in my 64 MGB. It took no time at all, and was really easy to install. My main reason for the upgrade was to eliminate the points. Although I can't say for sure that I notice any performance difference, the car does seem to start better.
I stayed with the stock Lucas coil. There's some really good information about coils and the Pertronix upgrade on Rick Astley's web page:
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/electrical/ignition.html
I found the write-up about coils especially interesting. The installation pictures were also very helpful.
I bought the Pertronix from a local shop that sells performance parts. They deal almost exclusively with older Domestic cars, but they sell all the different Pertronix units. I'm mentioning this because it was a LOT less expensive than buying from an MG supplier - even mail order. Shop around places like that. I paid almost half what I would have mail ordering from the usual suppliers.
Gord
I stayed with the stock Lucas coil. There's some really good information about coils and the Pertronix upgrade on Rick Astley's web page:
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/electrical/ignition.html
I found the write-up about coils especially interesting. The installation pictures were also very helpful.
I bought the Pertronix from a local shop that sells performance parts. They deal almost exclusively with older Domestic cars, but they sell all the different Pertronix units. I'm mentioning this because it was a LOT less expensive than buying from an MG supplier - even mail order. Shop around places like that. I paid almost half what I would have mail ordering from the usual suppliers.
Gord
aeronca65t
Great Pumpkin
Offline
I just put in a Pertronix hall-effect system (on my 1500 Spridget racer) last night.
The original (Spitfire-Delco) distributor had loose bearings that seemed to be causing points-float...so it seemed like a good time to change (and Moss is right down the street from me, so I picked it up during lunch).
I replaced the distributor with a modified Lucas 25 distributor (vacuum advance removed). I put the Pertronix setup in the distributor "on the bench" and then installed it in the car. It was very simple and works fine, with better idle...haven't driven it hard yet, but it seems to have more "punch". I'm running a fairly new "Standard" 6V American coil and ballast resistor. The car starts fine without a ballast-bypass circuit, so I haven't bothered with that (same thing when I had points). Timing is set at 34 degrees @ 4000+ RPM and plugs at 0.032".......I'll play around with these settings later, but they seem OK for now. I'm using solid core copper wires and the old-style side-outlet cap. The car is negative ground.
The car had an aftermarket solid state "Piranah" ignition when I originally bought it 7 years ago....that worked fine but eventually failed (I think, due to overcharging of the Lucas alternator.....it has a Mitsubishi alternator now). I've been street-driving/vintage-racing with points for five years.
My Pertroix kit does not mention "setting air gap", nor does it seem to be adjustable....maybe on other units? Placement of the black and red Ignitor wires is very important (as others have stated). Too much slack, and the wires will hit the spinning magnet.....to little, and the vacuum advance plate won't rotate (not a problem, in my case).
The write-up Gord refered to is excellent.
The original (Spitfire-Delco) distributor had loose bearings that seemed to be causing points-float...so it seemed like a good time to change (and Moss is right down the street from me, so I picked it up during lunch).
I replaced the distributor with a modified Lucas 25 distributor (vacuum advance removed). I put the Pertronix setup in the distributor "on the bench" and then installed it in the car. It was very simple and works fine, with better idle...haven't driven it hard yet, but it seems to have more "punch". I'm running a fairly new "Standard" 6V American coil and ballast resistor. The car starts fine without a ballast-bypass circuit, so I haven't bothered with that (same thing when I had points). Timing is set at 34 degrees @ 4000+ RPM and plugs at 0.032".......I'll play around with these settings later, but they seem OK for now. I'm using solid core copper wires and the old-style side-outlet cap. The car is negative ground.
The car had an aftermarket solid state "Piranah" ignition when I originally bought it 7 years ago....that worked fine but eventually failed (I think, due to overcharging of the Lucas alternator.....it has a Mitsubishi alternator now). I've been street-driving/vintage-racing with points for five years.
My Pertroix kit does not mention "setting air gap", nor does it seem to be adjustable....maybe on other units? Placement of the black and red Ignitor wires is very important (as others have stated). Too much slack, and the wires will hit the spinning magnet.....to little, and the vacuum advance plate won't rotate (not a problem, in my case).
The write-up Gord refered to is excellent.
I don't mean to be smart assed nor am I trying to be cute...but just curious...why do we want to do this again? I know I read that it was to boost performance and reliability, but several here have said that such is not the case. I am wondering...why am I considering doing this???
Bruce
Bruce
Offline
Bruce,
It's just the nature of forums/people. Most of the ones that we hear from are having problems & need help. You don't hear from the thousands of other satisfied customers. Pertronix has sold thousands of ignitions for everything from industrial engines & tractors to nearly every model of Detroit iron. There WAS a problem when the units were first sold & some have never forgotten the fact. Try doing a poll of how many have had trouble. Even this will not be definitive because many satisfied customers are not even on the internet. Sometimes we forget that the web is not the whole world.
No financial interest in the company.
D
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bruce74B:
I know I read that it was to boost performance and reliability, but several here have said that such is not the case. I am wondering...why am I considering doing this???
Bruce
<hr></blockquote>
It's just the nature of forums/people. Most of the ones that we hear from are having problems & need help. You don't hear from the thousands of other satisfied customers. Pertronix has sold thousands of ignitions for everything from industrial engines & tractors to nearly every model of Detroit iron. There WAS a problem when the units were first sold & some have never forgotten the fact. Try doing a poll of how many have had trouble. Even this will not be definitive because many satisfied customers are not even on the internet. Sometimes we forget that the web is not the whole world.
No financial interest in the company.
D
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bruce74B:
I know I read that it was to boost performance and reliability, but several here have said that such is not the case. I am wondering...why am I considering doing this???
Bruce
jonny,
I've just recently installed an Ignitor and Flame Thrower coil combination in my 71B. Took about an hour, including the re-timing. My 71's old coil was not ballasted, so I ordered the Flame Thrower accordingly. The distrib definitely needed advancing, but not as much as some I'd read about.
Bret's warning is absolutely to be heeded... carefully route the wiring within the distrib, leaving enough length, but not too much. There have been failures attributed to wiring getting worn and shorting due to friction. A small tie-wrap, holding the leads down to the plate just before they leave the distrib, will help. Also, a small dab of silicone sealant on the leads on the outside of the distrib will help keep moisture out.
Plugs: new NGK's, opened them up to 35mm. After roughly 1000 miles, the burn color is perfect.
Performance? I really don't notice much of a boost, but didn't expect any (over properly adjusted points). I went the Pertronix route because my 25D distrib had beginnings of some shaft wear (wobble) that was making it a nightmare to keep the points set. No problem now... no more points float.
spares: I'm currently carrying the points, condensor and screws (don't forget these) as spares, but I'll be ordering another Pertronix unit this week. Will install it, and keep the existing one as a spare. Yeah, I know... but I ask myself what I'd rather be re-installing some rainy night... points or pertronix? Definitely worth the money to me.
quality control: The Pertronix units tend to fall into 2 categories: those that fail pretty quickly, and those that run smoothly for years. And when they fail, they go immediately (at least points start deteriorating slowly). However, if needed, I hear that their customer support is outstanding.
Good luck, and may it go as well for you as it did for me.
Dave
I've just recently installed an Ignitor and Flame Thrower coil combination in my 71B. Took about an hour, including the re-timing. My 71's old coil was not ballasted, so I ordered the Flame Thrower accordingly. The distrib definitely needed advancing, but not as much as some I'd read about.
Bret's warning is absolutely to be heeded... carefully route the wiring within the distrib, leaving enough length, but not too much. There have been failures attributed to wiring getting worn and shorting due to friction. A small tie-wrap, holding the leads down to the plate just before they leave the distrib, will help. Also, a small dab of silicone sealant on the leads on the outside of the distrib will help keep moisture out.
Plugs: new NGK's, opened them up to 35mm. After roughly 1000 miles, the burn color is perfect.
Performance? I really don't notice much of a boost, but didn't expect any (over properly adjusted points). I went the Pertronix route because my 25D distrib had beginnings of some shaft wear (wobble) that was making it a nightmare to keep the points set. No problem now... no more points float.
spares: I'm currently carrying the points, condensor and screws (don't forget these) as spares, but I'll be ordering another Pertronix unit this week. Will install it, and keep the existing one as a spare. Yeah, I know... but I ask myself what I'd rather be re-installing some rainy night... points or pertronix? Definitely worth the money to me.
quality control: The Pertronix units tend to fall into 2 categories: those that fail pretty quickly, and those that run smoothly for years. And when they fail, they go immediately (at least points start deteriorating slowly). However, if needed, I hear that their customer support is outstanding.
Good luck, and may it go as well for you as it did for me.
Dave
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Bruce -
Add me to the list of satisfied customers. I just installed the Pertronix Ignitor and coil on my TR3, and can't believe the difference. No more starter grinding away, and the performance is noticeably better (no miracles, but much smoother idle and better pulling power). And I haven't touched the carbs or timing yet!
Am restoring a '73 MGB, and it will get the treatment, too.
Mickey
Add me to the list of satisfied customers. I just installed the Pertronix Ignitor and coil on my TR3, and can't believe the difference. No more starter grinding away, and the performance is noticeably better (no miracles, but much smoother idle and better pulling power). And I haven't touched the carbs or timing yet!
Am restoring a '73 MGB, and it will get the treatment, too.
Mickey
Bret
Yoda
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bruce74B:
I don't mean to be smart assed nor am I trying to be cute...but just curious...why do we want to do this again? I know I read that it was to boost performance and reliability, but several here have said that such is not the case. I am wondering...why am I considering doing this???
Bruce
<hr></blockquote>
Hey Bruce,
Adding to my earlier posts – I too have been very pleased with the overall results of my Pertronix Ignitor upgrade. Mind you there might have been something wrong with my stock ignition system from the start, causing me to notice the drastic improvements after the upgrade. However the cost of replacing the questionable stock parts far exceeded the $100 investment made for the Ignitor.
But don't take my word for it - check out the great article in the February 2003 issue of Grassroots Mototsports Magazine. They actually took a 78B and Dyno tested it with several of the most common bolt-ons currently available. Among some of the items tested where the K&N filters, Velocity stacks, Various Header & Exhaust set-up combinations as well as the Pertronix Ignitor.
The Ignitor was compared against the stock Electronic ignition dizzy, a 45D points distributor as well as the Crane system using a 25D distributor. The results where quite telling. The Ignitor saw +4hp @ 2000RPMs. +1hp @ 3000RPM and Peak over the stock electronic ignition. These numbers only improved as you increased the advance. Finally topping out at +5hp at 35 degrees of total advance at peak in their test runs.
Note: The 45D points dizzy saw improvements at the lower RPMs but fell off drastically at peak. Also the 25D with the Crane system showed the same basic results as the Ignitor did using stock (factory) base line settings used for the stock electronic ignition.
The article does make a point of telling the readers that while peak numbers are great. Try’n keep in mind your the total improvements throughout the curve. One of the most significant gains was the improvement in the Torque through the power band.
Again don’t take my word for it. Go & check-it-out for yourself? Surely the cost can’t be stopping ya at less than $100 bucks.
[ 06-01-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
I don't mean to be smart assed nor am I trying to be cute...but just curious...why do we want to do this again? I know I read that it was to boost performance and reliability, but several here have said that such is not the case. I am wondering...why am I considering doing this???
Bruce
Hey Bruce,
Adding to my earlier posts – I too have been very pleased with the overall results of my Pertronix Ignitor upgrade. Mind you there might have been something wrong with my stock ignition system from the start, causing me to notice the drastic improvements after the upgrade. However the cost of replacing the questionable stock parts far exceeded the $100 investment made for the Ignitor.
But don't take my word for it - check out the great article in the February 2003 issue of Grassroots Mototsports Magazine. They actually took a 78B and Dyno tested it with several of the most common bolt-ons currently available. Among some of the items tested where the K&N filters, Velocity stacks, Various Header & Exhaust set-up combinations as well as the Pertronix Ignitor.
The Ignitor was compared against the stock Electronic ignition dizzy, a 45D points distributor as well as the Crane system using a 25D distributor. The results where quite telling. The Ignitor saw +4hp @ 2000RPMs. +1hp @ 3000RPM and Peak over the stock electronic ignition. These numbers only improved as you increased the advance. Finally topping out at +5hp at 35 degrees of total advance at peak in their test runs.
Note: The 45D points dizzy saw improvements at the lower RPMs but fell off drastically at peak. Also the 25D with the Crane system showed the same basic results as the Ignitor did using stock (factory) base line settings used for the stock electronic ignition.
The article does make a point of telling the readers that while peak numbers are great. Try’n keep in mind your the total improvements throughout the curve. One of the most significant gains was the improvement in the Torque through the power band.
Again don’t take my word for it. Go & check-it-out for yourself? Surely the cost can’t be stopping ya at less than $100 bucks.
[ 06-01-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>
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