Points versus Pertronix

[SaxMan]

I received a rather interesting comment today when looking for a cap & rotor for Baby Blue. The person who I was corresponding with (who is generally acknowledged as a knowledgeable individual in LBC circles) told me that my car would run better using points rather than the Pertronix system that it currently has.

I do understand the difference from a maintenance point of view -- the Pertronix is going to be more reliable and you don't have to worry about burning out the points or replacing them. But, are there any performance advantages to running points over the Pertronix? I'm not likely going to switch, as the car runs well with the current system, but it definitely piqued my curiosity.

My understanding is that the Pertonix is considered one of the "acceptable" modifications to an otherwise original car, like a screw on oil filter adaptor or putting a 1275 into a Bugeye. Is the Pertronix simply a convenience/ease of maintenance modification?

 

[glemon]

I know I read an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago where they said simply adding a Pertronix was usually worth 3-4 horsepower or something like that, flip side I have recently read that Jeff what's his name at Advanced Distributors says points make a stronger spark. I don't know, I have really never had a problem with points as long as you adjust them from time to time, and replace the every now and then, but I have never had any problem Pertronix, and I have run them on my cars for about 15 years or more now. I haven't felt a seat of the pants difference in performance, or smooth idle or anything either. Actually don't know if I will bother to get a Pertronix for me next car.

 

[donbmw]

I like the Pertronix from a no maintance stand point and it being all under the disturber cap. I have tried it twice. Both times I would start losing power and missing under loads. Both time found spark plug wire in the cap shown they were arcing. After changing wires shortly after engine started to be hard to start and start missing all the time. Went back to points nd I fell it runs and starts better than it ever did with the Pertronix. I was even more carefull with the second one about disconnecting the power form it when I neededto have the battery on and engine not running.

don

 

[tomshobby]

Years ago I had a Chevy with a HEI ignition module. I installed a hotter ACCEL coil which made it run much better but I also found out it burned out the module on a regular basis. Finally went back to the original coil and all was well.
The Pertronix in my TR6 has been just fine for over 56,000 miles and about 8 years.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Not sure if this is true it not but I have always heard running radio by turning key on without starting engine can keep points close with power running through points causing them to wear out prematurely. One reason why I installed a bypass switch under the dash to power up radio when sitting still working on Bugsy in the garage. Not sure if true but heard the same thing 40 years ago with my Jarmahn Ghia.

 

[Guest]

Years ago I had a Chevy with a HEI ignition module. I installed a hotter ACCEL coil which made it run much better but I also found out it burned out the module on a regular basis..

Put the pookie under it?


I can fix/file/set points onna side of the road; can't w/ Pertronix but mine has a GM module in it from the factory. :wink:

 

[SaxMan]

Jeff at Advanced Distributor was the guy who I was corresponding with. Returning to a points distributor is an interesting concept, but if there's one thing I've learned with Baby Blue, that is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Lord knows how many times I've tried to fix things that "ain't broke" I end up "broking" them.

Of course, the corollary to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is "If it is broke, fix it and anything related that you wouldn't ordinarily be able to get to unless you're fixing the part that was broke"...which, of course, may include some items that "aren't broke". That usually has a happier ending for me.

 

[Pythias]

If you run Pertronix, carry a spare, or a dizzy set up with points ready to swop out. They're great until the aren't. More a PITA to set up, but stone cold steady and reliable is a Crane unit. Had mine for years, and when I had the dizzy rebuilt, had Jeff set it up. No maintenance, no worries, no power loss.

my 2 cents.

 

[JPSmit]

when Jeff spoke at the Spridget 50th at Road America - he said the Pertronix doesn't like the voltage fluctuations of the electrical systems - it wants rock steady voltage - IIRC he said Crane was better.

 

[Bayless]

I have the same Pertronix unit in the VW since 1996 with absolutely no problems.

 

[Keoke]

It is virtually gospel that an Electronic switch is more reliable than a electro mechanical one.
Consequently, we have done away with elctro mechanical Vibrators ,relays ETC.
Thats my story and I have been using them and Pertronix for over 15 years..
Of course carry a spare you carry spare points don't you??

 

[SaxMan]

Spare distributor? or cap & rotor? I haven't been carrying a spare, and at this point wouldn't even know what to do with distributor points. Sounds like something I need to look into, though.

 

[jlaird]

Once i remembered that the points screw in the dizzy requires a lock washer all was well, never a prob. Course Jeff rebuilt the dizzy as well.

 

[smaceng]

I had a spade connector on the coil that could be removed so that I could have ignition power without power to the Pertronix.
Do the Pertronix still burn out if left on without the engine running?
Scott in CA

 

[Boink]

If you run Pertronix, carry a spare, or a dizzy set up with points ready to swop out. They're great until the aren't. More a PITA to set up, but stone cold steady and reliable is a Crane unit. Had mine for years, and when I had the dizzy rebuilt, had Jeff set it up. No maintenance, no worries, no power loss.

I have the Petronix distributor and always keep the old one in my spare bits box IN THE CAR. One hazard, I think, is that you can't just leave the ignition on for a long while (with the engine not running)... depending on where it is in the rotation, as you can burn the thing up.

 

[dklawson]

The non-running "time limit" issue and overheating is associated with the original Ignitor module.. Supposedly the problem does not exist with Ignitor-II and later models.

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

As always your results may vary. I was near the end of my patience trying to resolve spark issues with points. Car had been sitting up for a few years, but ran fine when parked. When all of the other problems were resolved, spark was not happening. What is very basic and simple can become a major headache if related to Lucas. I tried everything and even used the AH manual for additional support. Nothing would light the points up. Installed the Pertronix and followed instructions. Motor fired right up just like it had been running all this time. I still have no idea know why the points would not fire and dont care for now. I will resolve the problem and keep them as backup when on any long runs. Or better yet, have a spare distributor ready for a drop in and drive away fix. Sounds like I might need to get a bigger British bug out bag.

 

[Billm]

Terry
Get a new condenser for your spare points- that was probably your problem
BillM

 

[Sarastro]

Sorry, I came late to this, but maybe I can add a little insight.

First, electrical things at their worst are FAR more reliable than mechanical ones at their best. That's one reason why, in industry, mechanical controls have always been replaced by electrical ones whenever practical. People worry about the reliability of electronic ignition modules, but look at the real problems people are having, according to the questions on this board, and you'll see that most involve the usual problems with conventional systems, not electronic ones. I see no reason to carry a spare ignition module if you use electronic ignition, any more than you should carry a spare oil pump, carburetors, fuel pump, or distributor advance mechanism. It's far from the most likely component to fail.

A common response is that you can carry a spare set of points and fix things if they go wrong, but you can't do this with an electronic ignition. That reasoning works until the points burn up at 3:00 AM in a 30-degree rain, and your frozen fingers drop a screw down into the distributor. Reliability comes from less failure-prone components, not fixing them when they do fail.

Second, about the Pertronix: when you put a fairly large circuit in a small package like that, there are invariably compromises. You just have to do without things that would be possible in a larger package. The well known problem of the Pertronix, where it self-immolates if left powered too long, probably is caused by a lack of protective circuitry, which would be possible in a larger package. (Also, there's little cooling where it's mounted, which compounds the problem.) If it is indeed more sensitive to voltage fluctuations, it's probably because there is no built-in voltage regulator, which is left out, again, for space reasons.

There are other choices besides points or Pertronix, remember. I had a Crane XR700 in my Bugeye, and I thought it was a very nice system. And, of course, there are others.

Third, about performance: I am extremely skeptical about claims of better performance with electronic ignition. Once you torch off that charge of fuel and air, the flame front moves away from the plug and anything more the ignition does can't have much effect. (This gets complicated, I know, as the flame is fairly turbulent and the combustion chamber is designed to promote swirling of the charge, so maybe the multiple voltage spikes created by some electronic ignitions have value--but it's still relatively small, I suspect.) The real advantage, as I see it, is that the higher voltage of an electronic ignition system makes it more robust--more likely to give a usable spark when things are not ideal, like when the plugs are old or slightly fouled, or a high-voltage wire connection is poor. I suspect that either electronic or conventional systems are about the same when everything is perfect, but we all know that perfect conditions deteriorate pretty quickly sometimes.

 

[Roger]

I have Pertronix on both the older Lotus, for two reasons.
First, accessibility to the distributor on the TwinCam engine is at best restricted, and adjusting points really mean taking the distributor out to do it properly.
Second, because anything that's left alone is far less likely to go wrong than something that needs periodic attention. Point settings deteriorate with usage.