Help Needed, getting those 1/4 Eliptics out of the spring mounting box

[Jim_Gruber]

Team,

I managed to drill out the broken bolts on my BE on my RR Spring, and spring dropped down easily, and I have also cleared all of the debris and detritus out of the Spring box. No wonder BE's always rust out down there. A Rust magnet. Fortunately the Spring Box is solid, this car has been in inside storage and dry the last 35 years. So when I try to remove the spring it gets hung up on the top shackle plate. I can move it around, in and out, and it gets so far and that's it. I cannot pull it out. What are the tips and techniques to get it the rest of the way out of there that folks have used. It moves freely in the cavity just can't get it the last 2-3 inches out of there. Thanks in advance.

PS I hope you don't tell me I need to drill this bad boy all of the way through. It's not hanging up on the nut but on the ridge of the top shackle / backing plate. Of course if drilled all of the way through the shackle plate would slide off....Then a question of how you get it back in there and get the backing plate in place. Advice needed. Thanks

 

[TulsaFred]

Oh yeah, I remember. Same thing happened to me, I had forgotten that little bit of fun.
I can't remember now how I solved it. I seem to remember it "almost" came out before getting hung up, as you say.
Maybe you can get a sawzall blade in from above to cut off the bolt under the threaded plate. A drift from below might provide a little clearance under the plate.
If I remember I'll post it.

I don't think putting it back is much of a problem. The leaves will be able to be shifted a bit.

 

[Gerard]

The one time I had this happen. You might need to use a Sawzall to cut the bolts off just under the plate. The spring will NOT come out with the plate in place. The opening is just not tall enough. What you've probably done is broken of the heads and you have an inch+ left in spring. Drilling out would not only be a nightmare, but you'll probably damage the holes in the spring itself. However, if the bolt sheared farther up the shank, what you can do is undo all the clamps that hold the leaves together, and try removing leaves starting at the bottom. if you can get 2 or more leaves out, you'll be able to drop the spring lower and clear the plate.

 

[lewmac]

Hi Jim,

If I recall, it won't come out unless that big fat U bolt shackle is outta there.....some how you have to get the U bolt shackle nuts of and then tap the u bolt up until you can pull the top out and remove the u bolt. same process in reverse when assembling the spring. Mounting plate first, then Q e spring and then shackle bolt.

Cheers
Lew

 

[Jim_Gruber]

The U Bolt is out. I did drill up enough into the spring that I could possibly separate the bottom leaf. If not can drill a little more. Are those clamps available not sure if they can be unbent and reused or not?

I'll try tomorrow morning to see what I can do with the Sawzall. will make sure nothing left on the bottom of the bolts I drilled out that is sticking down. Also will try to cut off top of the backing plate. Seems daunting but SawZall can do some wondrous things.

 

[Rut]

Jim,
these are the original bolts and bracket as well as the spring box. The bracket is in the forward most position and lies directly behind the bulkhead bump under the stiffening support. If you will be replacing sheet metal in this area you can attack it from the front, if not a sawzall under the bracket between the 2 bolts is the way to go. Good luck!
Rut

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Rut, the area around the spring box has already been repaired. If all else fails I guess I could cut it open from the back/bukkhead side. I now see know why this spring was never removed when bukkhead repair work was done 3; years ago

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Make tgat 34 years ago. A significant smount of rusty yuck was removed from that spring box. Ibelieve it is sound metal in there but won't know until I Get it apart.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Gerard, that would work but there is that centering pin that locks the entire stack together. Likely that will become a casualty of the SawZall as well as the backing plate. This is going to be interesting. If all else fails I can attack it from the bukkhead side and weld back up. Thanks.

 

[Gerard]

Gerard, that would work but there is that centering pin that locks the entire stack together. Likely that will become a casualty of the SawZall as well as the backing plate. This is going to be interesting. If all else fails I can attack it from the bukkhead side and weld back up. Thanks.

I forgot about that, but as I recall, there is a nut at the top you might be able to get at. I don't have an assembled car here to see how much access there is. Otherwise, you may need to cut the bottom off that as well. You'll need to be able to raise up the plate at the top to gain access. As I recall now, I'm pretty sure I ended up cutting the blunt end off mine to get it out.

 

[Rut]

I forgot about that, but as I recall, there is a nut at the top you might be able to get at. I don't have an assembled car here to see how much access there is. Otherwise, you may need to cut the bottom off that as well. You'll need to be able to raise up the plate at the top to gain access. As I recall now, I'm pretty sure I ended up cutting the blunt end off mine to get it out.

Jim,
What Gerard says...the pin in the center has a nut which is usually rusted away and you need to lift the 2 bolts high enough to give you a gap. Use a punch to drive the 2 cut bolts up as far as they will go and have at it with the saw. The replacement parts will need to be beveled on the front end to clear the bulkhead on reassembly or you will never get the new bolts to line up!
Rut

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Thanks guys. This is going to be a challenge. I'll start with the SawZall and see what I can do. May need to wait until tomorrow as we've got 25 people coming to the house for Colleen's Birthday today. That will too tge priority list today.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

OK 20 minutes with the SawZall on the side of the bracket has made a 1/16" cut. Cannot get access from the side to directly get under the backing plate. Need to get room on the side, hence my thought on cutting directly up from the side of the spring. But at this rate will be hours and hours of cutting and changing blades. Hmm could a 5" cutting wheel on my angle grinder with the guide off get up there and trip off the side of the backing plate?

Thought of trying a drift to punch out the springs but now that the spring is loose and disconnected in the spring box, no way to get proper leverage from below. Can't even see the holes drilled that freed up the spring from mounting bracket. Need some more thought gents. Ther bulkhead side with supporting brace is no little piece of steel sheet metal to cut through. Multiple welds and in fact you can't even see where the welds are to even think about separating that piece from the bulkhead. Need more ideas guys. Thanks.

 

[BillW103]

I don't remember exactly how I got mine out. I ended up sacrificing the spring and did some creative work with a torch. My 2 bolts broke at the heads. The springs I put back in were only 10 leaf but the stock 15 leaf is snug in there. I opted to get a new spring as cut the car.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

I've got a new of 10 leaf spring that were promised to go with parts car. Neighbor has a cutting torch and a plasma cutter. I may need him to come over for a consult on getting this SOB out of there. Would like to retain 15 leaf if possible.

 

[Gerard]

OK 20 minutes with the SawZall on the side of the bracket has made a 1/16" cut. ...
.... Need more ideas guys. Thanks.

If it's taking you that long to make that little progress, you need a better blade.

 

[mightymidget]

not sure exactly where you are at but I tell you what I did, it may or may not work for you.
I got a large pipe wrench, had 18-24" handle on it, gripped the spring and twisted in box 90 degrees. then the spring came right out.

You need to drink a dose of ****&vinegar to give you the push to twist spring in box. Good luck

 

[TulsaFred]

Great idea, Mighty Midget. The brute force method. I like it.
Or, about a 1/2 inch bolt, or 8/16, at 1/16 per 20 minutes = 160 minutes or 2 hrs and 40 minutes with the sawzall on each bolt...
I'd get the big pipe wrench. Biggest you can find. Harbor Freight has some big ones for cheap.
I like the 48 in one!
https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=pipe+wrench

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Plan for today. Use SawZall with new blade and continue cutting from the bottom along the side of the spring and cut off one side of the top bracket. Then use brute force method. Since car is one jackstands got to be somewhat cautious with force exerted. Slicing off one side reduces width making it easier to turn on it's side and slide out. Thanks team for help and support.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

SUCCESS! A new Method for Spring Extraction. I followed the tips provided by Mighty Midget. I got a 12 " pipe wrench and placed on the end of the spring. Gave a tug, thought no way this is going to go, repositioned the spring a little further in the box and voila the spring turned right over on its side and slid straight out. Save this one in the annals. No more cutting. just drilled the bottom of the spring mount so the bolts were free to move and it turned right over with a little leverage. Thanks to Mighty Midget for helping me defeat British Engineering. Now to clean out the remaining rust and see what I have in there.