Frustration time ARRRRGH

[Tinkerman]

I just found out that the round hole in my re-cored radiator, for my TR 3A, is off enough that I cannot use my crank to turn the engine. The bottom of the hole is off about 1/2 inch. Get it fix or forget about it? I'm not even sure they can fix it. The radiator is mounted but the front clip is not on at this point.
Wot to do? Wot to do?

Tinkerman the frustrated!

 

[TR3driver]

A good radiator shop can definitely make the hole larger.

But I've been running radiators without a hole since around 1999, and I can honestly say that I've never missed it. I have absolutely no interest in trying to start the motor by hand (and risk broken fingers, etc); and for setting valves I find it easier to just put the gearbox in 4th and roll the car a bit. Or just use the electric starter.

 

[Guest]

If you try to start one with the crank and it kicks back,you'll forget about it real quick.

 

[DougF]

Did you ever use the crank before? In addition to broken fingers, you also risk damaging the grill. AAA is a better option.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Mercy -- maybe I've been lucky or maybe I've been careful but in 30+ years of using the crank to start the engine I have never had a problem, a close call or even the hint of the thing kicking back, etc.

As Randall notes, they can may the hole larger -- specifically, taller which I think does not affect the cooling as you have already given up those central rows.

I recently had a similar outcome though in my case shimming the engine up 3/16" was the solution. I didn't like that much but a half inch would be out of the question.

 

[TR3driver]

Mercy -- maybe I've been lucky or maybe I've been careful

Or maybe a combination of both. Healthy engines rarely kick back, but a bad connection or a stuck spark advance can definitely cause problems. I've cranked a few non-TRs myself and never had an issue either.

But stories like this make me think I'd rather find a different solution https://www.theautochannel.com/mania/industry.orig/history/chap5.html

Years ago, when I routinely had to start a TR3 with a nearly dead battery, I got pretty good at push-starting it by myself. (Didn't own a crank at that time. in fact it was probably 10 years or more before I even saw a TR3 hand crank.) I would first put it in 4th gear with the ignition on and push until it started to fire fairly often. It wouldn't actually start because the engine couldn't pull the car in 4th gear. But once it started to fire regularly, then I could put it in neutral, push until it was moving at a walking pace, then jump in, drop it in 2nd, pop the clutch just long enough to crank the engine, then shove the clutch back in so it could start.

Obviously I was a lot more nimble then than I am now :laugh:

 

[JerryVV]

In PA we just parked on a hill. Kinda tough in Indiana. <smile>

 

[Marvin Gruber]

I've owned at least 50 TR3s since 1976, have never used a crank to start one or even turn the engine over for tuneup. Wouldn't worry about the hole unless you are just wanting it to be very original.

BTW- have a stack of crank handles if anybodys looking.

Marv

 

[Deleted member 8987]

You guys crack me up. In the old Ford hobby, Models A, T and earlier, we hand-prop them all the time. Usually because there is NO battery. (joke)
Pull UP, NEVER push down, or you'll break something fer sure.
Pull it slowly until you just start feeling compression, remove crank, set so the crank is on the lower quadrant of an upstroke, do NOT wrap your fingers around the crank handle, keep them open, just curled tips, and pull up.
No start, do it again.
I would not recommend running baling wire with a loop through the radiator core, connected to the choke, though....not enough room on the TR's to get a bell-crank in.

 

[tinman58]

Dick, Leave it as is. Put the apron on and drive it out to sunny CA.

 

[Tinkerman]

Interesting story Randall thanks for the link.

 

[NutmegCT]

In case anyone's still reading this topic ...

I've fit my crank into the hole and engaged it a couple times. It fits "tight" through the grille/radiator opening. With ignition off, I can try turning it, and feel the resistance.

I've never had the courage to actually try to crank start the engine. My fear was that the crank wouldn't "dis-engage" as designed, and that the crank would spin around like crazy, possibly damaging the radiator and grille.

Is this a valid worry? Any way to test this "dis-engage" process safely?

Tom (a/k/a Sleepless in the Battle"

 

[CJD]

It's got a taper on the crank bolt...so not likely unless the crank has glue on the end. Its popping backwards you have to worry about.

John

 

[NutmegCT]

Thanks John. It's the "taper" that concerns me. The crank is new and unused, and a very tight fit through those holes and into the crank bolt. I sure don't want to find out the hard way, that it does *not* pop out of that crank bolt.

By the way, I was born in FW a loooooong time ago, and got my bachelor's from TCU in 1970. Is there still a Jetton's BBQ down by the Botanic Gardens, across from the Zoo entrance? Jetton's had *fantastic* BBQ, and pecan pie. <drool>

Tom

 

[TR4nut]

By the way, I was born in FW a loooooong time ago, and got my bachelor's from TCU in 1970. Is there still a Jetton's BBQ down by the Botanic Gardens, across from the Zoo entrance? Jetton's had *fantastic* BBQ, and pecan pie. <drool>

Tom

Sorry for jumping in but any discussion of bbq gets me hungry. Doesn't sound like the place is around anymore, but this might bring back some memories: Jetton BBQ on facebook

 

[CJD]

Yeah, sad but true...it's long gone. There aren't a whole lot of the good ole' family restaurants left...

I still can't imagine that crank sticking enough not to release. As long as it slides into place i am sure the inertia will slide it back out. Have you got a nice, thick pair of welding gloves? This will definitely be YouTube material too, so you need two helpers...one on the ignition switch and one filming!

John

 

[NutmegCT]

John - I'll give it a try. First have to raise my life insurance coverage

Sad to hear Jetton's is gone. I remember when Walter Jetton would bring his old "chuck wagon" and cook for outdoor parties. Even did that for President Johnson, and lots of private events.

And I heard a rumor that Luby's cafeterias aren't what they used to be. Man I loved those places back in the 1960s and 1970s. Chicken fried steak, mashed potatoes and gravy, black eye peas, slaw and peanut salad, ambrosia, and custard pie. And the TALL iced tea glasses. And of course the "sweet little ladies" who pushed the coffee/tea refill carts from table to table.

sigh. OK - back to reality.

Tom

 

[CJD]

That's funny Tom...I almost mentioned that Luby's is still around! They really cut the number of locations about 3 years ago. I think this economy is hitting everyone. Dicky's is the biggest old local BBQ that's still around and doing well.

If you PM your vitals, I'd like to take a policy out on you too!?! For the first start, it might be a good idea to brief the ignition operator to switch off at the very first exhaust pop. That'll be enough to test the crank. Then you can do a real start if all goes well.

Look fwd to hearing how it goes!

John

 

[Geo Hahn]

I see no reason why it would not disengage but you could see how easily it will do this by getting the crank in place then slowing cranking it backwards. The handcrank should easily turn CCW and push out a bit (3/8" or so) as you do this.

What may be of more concern is that the crank is 'a very tight fit through those holes and into the crank bolt". I don't think it should be tight. Can you tell where it is tight? Is it binding a bit in the guide or the radiator hole? Is everything lined up well -- i.e. when you look thru the guide and radiator hole do you see the front of the dogbolt nicely centered?

 

[elrey]

If you decide to give it a try follow TOC's exellent advice. And do not wrap your thumb around the handle! Leave your thumb against your palm [out of the equation]. Keep your face away as well. My idiot neighbor tried to start my Farmall when I was not around and well... let's just say he won't be trying that again any time soon.