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NASCAR cooling technology in a Porsche!?!

Bret

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Well I just found this somewhat ironic. Good ol'boy technology in a German sports car!?!? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Anyway after finally fixing the broken off bolts on the engine’s aluminum crossover (but we won’t talk about that /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif ) I finally finished my radiator swap last week.

The new C&R radiator (Yup! The same folks that supply radiators to NASCAR ) is a vast improvement over the Factory Behr radiators. But while the Behr rads are aluminum too, they had an inherent design fault because they used plastic end tanks that where glued in place. Good weight & cost savings but this meant that they had to be serviced much more frequently than a solid radiator and would need to be refurbished from time to time. Problem is the core was only good for one or if you’re lucky two refurbishing before you’d need a new radiator.

The new C&R radiator on the other hand has solid aluminum end tanks that are actually welded on.

The only problem is the C&R unit isn’t exactly a drop in replacement as you have to do some finagling & Polish engineering to the mounting points in order to persuade it to “drop” in. Basically all I had to do was take off about a half inch of the lower rubber mounts and trim some of the other plastic trim pieces around the radiator.

Some folks have pointed out that it’d be cheaper to buy a used unit or get an OEM stock unit. But while the C&R unit isn’t cheap at $895, a new OEM replacement unit priced out at about $1200.

Results? – She seems to run much cooler than before. Took it out for a test drive in some 90-95 degree weather and the temp stayed rock steady.

I’m impressed. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
 

DrEntropy

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Geez, John... yours is AIR-COOLED. A "real" Porsche. Bret's onna other hand, well...

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

mehheh.
 
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Bret

Bret

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And the Peanut gallery chimes in /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif ......

Hmmm? Lets see lets count how many air cooled Porsches are in the current line-up? Whats that you say?!?! NONE! ZIP! ZERO! NADA!

Fact is the 928 was the "first" true "proper" P-Car designed "in-house" from the ground up with *NO* Volkswagen DNA.
 

DrEntropy

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Does that mean I can't poke at you any more? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Rabbits & 924/944's were water cooled back-when. So VW DNA may still be there in a vestigial sense. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

I'd like to see pix of that all metal rad, BTW. I've never been a fan of the crimped on plastic tanks. seen too many of 'em seperate at the seals/seams after a while.
 
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Bret

Bret

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DrEntropy said:
Does that mean I can't poke at you any more? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif
Certainly not Doc! I can take a poke as good as most folks. Just remember I tend to poke back! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

DrEntropy said:
Rabbits & 924/944's were water cooled back-when. So VW DNA may still be there in a vestigial sense. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
Ah but (and as you no doubt know) for all the similarities between the 924/944s & the 928 they are totally different animals and at no time did the two design teams collaborate or share information. For those that don’t know the 924 was actually an Audi/VW collaboration originally intended to be a Sports car for Volkswagen. But with the 914 on the way out the Porsche gave it the node as it’s entry level P-car.

But again the 928 was entirely an *in house* endeavor with the only outsourced components being the 3 speed auto transmission coming from Mercedes Benz after some “massaging” by some p-car engineers of course. But that was later replaced by a P-car design so the Shark is IMHO the only true Porsche.

DrEntropy said:
I'd like to see pix of that all metal rad, BTW. I've never been a fan of the crimped on plastic tanks. seen too many of 'em separate at the seals/seams after a while.
I have some picks of the installation and will post them later on.

In my view the *tabs* are the weakest point of the design. If you have to replace the seals it is almost impossible to not break one or two on each side and after about the second (or if you’re lucky the third) attempt – there aren’t enough tabs left to guarantee a proper seal. That’s why I prefer the solid welded radiator.
 

DrEntropy

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I'd send someone around to check on you if you didn't poke back, Bret.

As for the "alloy" and plastic thingies: I think they're all scrap... I had one burst its seam spontaneously a few months ago. Admittedly the car was a Honda Civic with over 250K miles on it. Original owner. We had done some A/C work (R&R the evaporator, flush evac & charge). Never TOUCHED the rad. It just let go and sprayed HOT coolant all over the place. Lucky for us, it split at the engine side. We were standing right in front of it! 'rseholes & elbows fer a tick. Scared the bejeepers outta us.
 
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Bret

Bret

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I can see that happening Doc.

When I first had my radiator woes not all that long ago when one of my end caps *housing* (not the seal odly enough) started leaking when the system was at temp and fully pressurized. I was able to get around the leak by running with the overflow presure cap removed while I sorted things out. At first I mistakenly tried purchasing a used radiator thinking I could have it rebuilt then swap it out for my leaky one. Then have the old one serviced so I could have a spare emergency back up. But you know what they say about best best laid plans?....

When I delivered the used rad to a local shop to evaluate it’s condition – under a mere 10 PSI (system cap 15 psi) it leaked like a sieve.

So after some soul searching & looking at the design long & hard - I decided that I didn’t want to invest in refurbishing my old radiator either. So I went to a 928 vendor for one of their C&R Aluminum radiators.

I'm very happy! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 

DrEntropy

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Don't let th' rank 'n file hear this but: so am I!

You now have a rad to last a lifetime. All ya got left now is all those steel bolts in aluminum castings to contend with. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

You ~DID~ use aunty-sneeze or stainless fasteners to do the replacement, right?! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
 
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Bret

Bret

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Of course. *Aunty-sneeze* is my friend!

BTW here are a couple of shots of the new Alloy Radiator.

pretty.jpg


newrad.jpg
 

10musketeer

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Looks like that worked out very nice. I have a buddy that has a 928 and I've always liked them. Lots of H.P. with pretty decent MPG.
 

DrEntropy

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Now that's a proper fix! Looks quite at home there. Nicely fitted.

Have we talked about 928 heater core R&R? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif

...and you STILL haven't posted a pic of the starboard footwell wiring scheme for the entertainment of the group, Bret. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
 
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Bret

Bret

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At first I was a little worried about the Heater core but after checking the condition of the old radiator I’m not too worried about it. Everything coming out of the block looked clear and no funky crud or suspect residue came out. But to be safe I disconnected the return from the heater core & flushed it with water. Again nothing suspect came out and it seemed to flow pretty much unrestricted and came out clear.

Also because of the age of the system (30yrs) I avoided using any harsh or corrosive flushing compounds all together. Many folks don’t realize that those flushing compounds often result in weakening & often cause more problems down the road if you don’t get *ALL* of the residual cleared out.

As for relay & fuse panel pic? I will get in there & snap a couple of shots. Its like looking at something from the Space Shuttle when stacked up against the inside finder of my 78B. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Still have three electical issues that need addressing. Would've had'em done already had it not been for the radiator problems and of course learning my way through those German schematics didn't speed things up either.
 

DrEntropy

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I kinda LIKE the way (shh! I'd hate fer that to get around) the factory books lay out the electrics. It was quite logical. Didn't think much of the execution tho. That footwell is a nightmare.
 

GB1

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Quite nice Bret. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif

That is one huge oil cooler! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

Pat
 

DrEntropy

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mehheh.

Patrick, you DAWG! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif
 
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