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Exhaust Leak Rant!

Bret

Yoda
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Warning minor rant. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif

Well, Sunday Oct 2nd, my daughter Julia (5yrs) & I drove our 78B to the 25th Annual San Diego British Car Day up north at Fairbrook Farm in Bonsall.

We had a great time – lots of cars there. Many I’d never seen before (other than photos) and a few old favorites made appearances too. Talking to some of the event volunteers from the SDMGC they estimated that about 500+ cars made it. I’ll try’n post some pictures on my web page later this week.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Adding to the fun was that the MG was running great that morning - although the choke (enrichment device) still isn’t working quite as good as I’d like it to – once she was warmed up she ran like a top. Other than that nothing went wrong – except that I did note that I had a slight exhaust leak under the bonnet.

I had to take the freeway up and back and when you have a 4 speed to keep up with traffic in Southern California you need to run about 4,000 RPMs to maintain 70MPH to help avoid getting run over by your fellow motorists! On the way home is when things kind a got a little more uncomfortable – when I noticed that the car’s exhaust leak was starting to get progressively louder & louder. After getting home I noticed that I’d completely blown out the gasket between the manifold & catalytic converter. Additionally the hardware was loose that holds the doughnut between the cat & the down pipe.

To those of you that might remember I replaced the cat about 3 years ago in preparation for an up-coming smog test. It required the removal of the exhaust/intake manifold to properly seat the cat. I also noted about the same time the quality of the gaskets sold by both Moss and Victoria British don’t have a heat ring like the gasket does that came with the new Cat. However heat ring gasket is the one that blew out this time. I think I seated it correctly when I replaced the cat, so tend to I think I damaged the gasket the last time I was struggling to set up & tune my B. I say this as the cat turned cherry red a few times until I got the air/fuel mixture adjustment just right.

Anyway after evaluating what needed to be fixed – I also looking over the entire exhaust system and noted a couple of more minor leaks as well as some rust & cracks. I figure it is time to completely change my exhaust system out before it falls off. So I ordered an whole new stock system (~$130) along with all new gaskets & hardware from Moss and will install it either this coming weekend or the following. While I am pulling things apart – time permitting, I will try to re-build my carburetor & choke as it needs to be removed to pull the manifold. I’m also thinking about having the manifold cleaned up & powder coated – but we’ll wait & see what happens. The only unknown at this point is the catalytic converter itself – it may need replacement too. But I won’t know until I get it out. If it is bad I will put one on order and take care of some of the other items I mentioned.

That said: While at the show I got the chance to talk to the Moss representative about a few things – and one of the topics was the quality of the gaskets in question above. He informed me that this has been a nagging complaint from many customers – so much so that they recently replaced the old gaskets with newer ones that incorporate the aforementioned heat ring.

That brings me to the next comment; Smog testing (always a crowd pleaser). While picking the Moss rep’s brain at the show I queried him about the new Moss EFI system that is a smog legal replacement for the single ZS carb setup. He said that they’d been having some difficulties commitment-wise with the manufacture. But the good/bad news about this is, now that our Governor Arnold signed a new smog testing bill (don’t get me started! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif ) into law that requires all vehicles made after 1974 to be tested “forever” there is a better chance that the new EFI kit will sell like hotcakes and might be the added incentive to the manufactured to get off his rear-end and start production. Otherwise a lot of late model (Rubber Bumper) B’s like mine are going to start disappearing from the streets of California.
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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Those gaskets can be pesky. You have to make sure they are seated properly and the manifold is mated flatly on the header. If they are a little off, hot gasses will slip into the soft area of the gasket and incinerate it. I'm very close to replacing the stock header with a single-piece unit.

On a second note, I saw your car at the San Diego show but you weren't around. Nice day out there. Not as many cars as the Woodley Park show nor as much variety, but the setting is neat and the awards are much better. I plan to enter a car next year. Would have this year but I got home from a trip very late the night before so I was late getting to the show.
 
OP
Bret

Bret

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Hey Steve,

Yes, I was wondering if anybody else showed up at the event from the forum. Glad you made it. Sorry I missed you, I was probably walking around with my daughter.

But you must bring your car next year and if you can sign-up early. The awards quality & quantity are determined by how many folks sign-up, early so that'd be the best bet. In my case I never know for sure if I'm going to be in town so it's a bit hard to commit. Mater-a-fact of the 12 Midgets that signed up early only three showed up and at least one of them didn’t sign-up a head of time.

Anyway as for the exhaust leak. I’m pretty sure I tightened the hardware down good when I originally replaced the cat over 3years ago without any problems. I’ve been told that if your cat glows cherry red (rich air/fuel mixture) the gaskets can fail. But as I said in the first post - the Moss rep told me that the new gaskets they sell now have the heat ring too. But he also said that they are made out of a more durable material than the old ones and should last longer. One can only hope!

I got the notice from Moss that all of my parts shipped today but the exhaust system is on back order. I guess I can start tearing things down this weekend.

Wish me luck!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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I have the same problem as you, that I can't commit to a date since my schedule changes daily. I almost signed up early for the show but sure enough, a job came up last minute and I didn't land back in good 'ol USA until midnight. Got a late start to the show and then they shut down the I-5 completely because some dumb guy crashed his army truck into the back of another army truck. We barely made it before the awards were given out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

sbndave

Freshman Member
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Howdy Bret,

Slightly off topic, but you mentioend it :smile: , running 4000 RPM's at normal freeway speeds does make me a bit nervous. That from a VW Bug (Classic air cooled) and Ford truck pilot. Have you found that engine speed to be a problem? My "B" dosn't seem to mind really. Not like the VW that seems to have a prefered freeway speed.

As for the CAT gasket, I have been dealing with that on myself, so I can SMOG the car. (The guy I bought it from gave me a break if I did the SMOG rather than he.)

Anyhow -- why did you remove the manifold to "seat" the CAT? I seemed to get mine back on while everything was still in the car. I replaced all the studs. The threads on the old ones didn't seem to be in good shape. Also I bolted down the CAT with the rest of the pipe disconnected. I bolted the rest of the pipe to the CAT once it was all bolted down tight. It seems to be working well so far.

Also the gasket was from a local car parts place. It wasn't an exact fit. I had to "message" the mounting holes a bit.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
 
OP
Bret

Bret

Yoda
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[ QUOTE ]

Howdy Bret,

Slightly off topic, but you mentioend it :smile: , running 4000 RPM's at normal freeway speeds does make me a bit nervous. That from a VW Bug (Classic air cooled) and Ford truck pilot. Have you found that engine speed to be a problem? My "B" dosn't seem to mind really. Not like the VW that seems to have a prefered freeway speed.


[/ QUOTE ]

After doing some modifications (Ignitor & HP Coil) to my ignition system my car really seems to love the high revs and can red line with little effort. But I cringe whenever I take the old gal on the freeway and push it at 70 – 75 MPH because of the sustained revs required to do so. Heck I’ve even had her up to well over 80 MPH a few times, but then I have another issue. The front end feels kind of squally at that speed because of wind buffeting – but I have an Air Dam that I am going to put on that should help with that.

[ QUOTE ]
As for the CAT gasket, I have been dealing with that on myself, so I can SMOG the car. (The guy I bought it from gave me a break if I did the SMOG rather than he.)

Anyhow -- why did you remove the manifold to "seat" the CAT? I seemed to get mine back on while everything was still in the car. I replaced all the studs. The threads on the old ones didn't seem to be in good shape. Also I bolted down the CAT with the rest of the pipe disconnected. I bolted the rest of the pipe to the CAT once it was all bolted down tight. It seems to be working well so far.

Also the gasket was from a local car parts place. It wasn't an exact fit. I had to "message" the mounting holes a bit.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.


[/ QUOTE ]

I removed the manifold to better seat the Cat to the manifold. I did it this way because the first time I tried to replace the gasket it blew out almost right away because I couldn’t get a good seat.

The other reason I decided to pull the manifold; is that it allowed me to replace the leaky manifold gasket (to the head) that the previous owner tried to do a crummy patch job on with some liquid gasket /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif. It also allowed me to inspect & replace the two side tapplet gasket covers that are one of the more common engine oil leaks you find on the B engine. Especially with a the cat sitting right next to them they stock cork gaskets degrade. I replaced them with the rubber ones Moss sells. BTW that cut my oil leaks down to almost nothing.

But the main reason is that I found it to be much easier to remove the entire manifold to get at the cat and make sure I had a good seal after everything was tightened down. Besides the B ran a lot nicer afterwards – so I figure I had a lot of leaks that got taken care of by removing the manifold and replacing all of the tired old gaskets.

The proof of this is that I was able to walk through the tuning procedures without any real difficulty and she passed smog without any real difficulties. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Good luck with yours.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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Bret, I've had my B over 100MPH many times on the highway (in my younger days) and my normal speed these days is around 85 MPH (yes my speedo is correct). You should be able to easily hold these speeds without any trouble. Also the wind buffeting is concerning. Perhaps there is an aerodynamic isue with rubber bumper cars, but my B is rock solid at any speed. I would be curious to find out why your car is doing this.
 
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Bret

Bret

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Perhaps its just in my head, but the buffeting at speed never really bugs me when I’m by myself – hardly notice it in fact. But I seem to notice things a bit more when my five year old is sitting next to me. I don’t think I’d ever try to go that fast but I must admit that I have (when I am alone) had my MGB up to about 85 MPH on some twisty back country rural roads. Hey I had to test my new up-rated suspension some how didn’t I? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

That said - I’ve been told that MGBs tend to get buffeted around a bit more on windy days than that of heavier modern cars & trucks. Makes sense as my B is a fraction of what my wife SUV or my full size truck weight. One fix a friend suggested was to install a front air dam to help keep the front end from getting a little light at speed or in heavy head winds.

But I did purchase a new front air dam – I just haven’t gotten around to installing it yet.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 

90 XJ-S

Jedi Trainee
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Bret,

Got a nice picture of your car while I was there. Asked around, no one knew where you were.

I brought the Jag as the MG is running a "Little" rich. (that cherry red cat you were talking about) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It was quite a meet and I will most certainly be back next year. Hopefully with both cars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also, one of these days I will remember that it is the first Tuesday early enough to make it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

Mike
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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Interesting Bret. I've never experienced that before so I can only attribute it to the rubber bumpers. Even in heavy winds my B is more stable than many larger sedans I've owned and certainly more stable than any SUV or truck! Perhaps the [relatively] immense weight of that rubber bumper so far forward is part of the cause? If you're nervous about going faster than 85MPH in a MGB then we need to figure something out. 'Cause that just ain't right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

90 XJ-S

Jedi Trainee
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Mine stays stable too.(at better than 85) But, I have the LE with the front Dam, maybe that's the answer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

Mike
 

Nunyas

Yoda
Country flag
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The California Smog Bill that the governator signed last week..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif

man... and I was somewhat looking towards a less complicated career of owning my '76 B next year....

The real kicker, from my interpretation of that crazy bill, is that there is an emissions system component check to go with it. So, even if I make the engine pass the emissions test (with half the equipment), I'd fail if i didn't retain the crazy air-pump that no modern car has...

Which, brings to mind... how would Moss go about making their proposed "fuel injection" kit "California Legal" if the law requires the owner to retain all of the original emissions equipment? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Would there be some sort of provision or documentation that would come with the kit that you could show to the tester to let you through?

With the passing of that bill, the injection system looks mightie appealing to me... especially if it means i can remove some stuff that new cars don't use... and maybe even gain some power in the end.
 
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Bret

Bret

Yoda
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Sadly you have to retain all of the original smog emissions equipment. The only thing you do away with is the ZS carburetor. The EFI Moss Motors featured in it’s British Motoring magazine showed that it bolted right in it place of the old carburetor. Also should this ever go on sale you receive a official certificate issued by CARB to show the technician when you take your car in for testing.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
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Bret

Bret

Yoda
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[ QUOTE ]
this is just california right? you're making me nervous - i'm putting a 73 engine in my 76 midget

[/ QUOTE ]

A few other states have similar emissions testing to what California does so keep an eye on your legislators. Here in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia – we have a large contingent of Militant “Free to be You & Me, Hug a Tree” Environmentalists that have a majority control in our states government.
 

sbndave

Freshman Member
Country flag
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Howdy Bret et al,

WEll heck if you had a leacky manifold gasket then sure it makes sense to bolt the CAT while it's out. I'm sure it would me much easier.

Bolting mine back on required use of a crow's foot for the bolt closest to the engine (couldn't get my "spanners" in there! :smile: )

But my gasket seems to be holding well this time. The difference is getting a nice exhaust manifold gasket with
metal faceings.

By the by -- I also have the same problem with the VW's. That is finding the proper metal maskets to make everything work.
 

sbndave

Freshman Member
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Howdy Nunyas,

he real kicker, from my interpretation of that crazy bill, is that there is an emissions system component check to go with it. So, even if I make the engine pass the emissions test (with half the equipment), I'd fail if i didn't retain the crazy air-pump that no modern car has...

I try to look at the bright side RE the pump.
Should I ever get "flush" (the bucks) enough to afford a turbo, the pump actualy helps performance. At least that's what I read once.
 

fadler1

Member
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Re: Exhaust Leak Rant! Stability at higher speed

I owned a '67 before I just got this '77 and there is a difference with the rubber bumper (higher) B's. Back in the 1970's when I remember them "raising" the B's to meet new government requirements for height of bumpers, there were articles about the lower stability of modified MGB. Isn't it interesting that now guys can drive a Ford Exploder raised to roll over most other vehicles and get away with it but back in the '70's the "MAN" insisted on wrecking perfectly good and stable sports cars and making them raise them "eye to eye" with Buick Rivieras? I have found my 1977 "less" stable but the front has tube shocks now and that helped. I also replaced my bounce back straps in back and that helped with "stiffness". I can't tell from you pictures but are you replacing the valance in front with the dam or are you like mine without anything below the rubber bumper now? If you want to lose the valance for a reasonable price, email me at fadler@genbio.com. I am just over the hill from you in Scripps Ranch.
 
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