5 Speed Tranny ......

[George Zeck]

I am probably looking at a engine rebuild and came accross the following 5 speed tranny on ebay:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Standard "Datsun" that bolts right on to our "A" engines. I know rivergate sells the same thing -- I see them bidding on most of them that come available. Not sure if a rebuild is standard or they just sell as is / where is (never rebuilt an engine).

The question I have -- being "armed & dangerous" with a little bit of information is: Do transmissions need re-built ? I think with an engine rebuild going on; I'll have plenty on my plate as far as time and abilities are concerned.

If the tranny does need / could be rebuilt -- how much / less difficult is it when compared to the engine. My 4 Speed works quite well now -- just thinking out loud.
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[Trevor Jessie]

Actually George, it doesn't bolt right up. It requires an adapter kit. Rivergate makes one and Morrisservice makes another. I used a 210 transmission without a rebuild, and it is working great.

 

[George Zeck]

So if I understand correctly, it is possible to rebuild, you just chose not to.

If true -- what were your determining factors to look for on the 'condition' of the tranny once your received it ??

Tx-

George

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[norcalnewb]

George,

Are you doing the rebuild on the engine yourself? I know you replied to my intro a week or two ago and provided a list of things you had done to your car. I will need to do some work on the cylinder head, and I am debating whether or not I should do a complete engine rebuild while I am at it. If you do it yourself, I would love to hear how it goes for you.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Yup, I'm impatient. I actually bought the transmission from a fellow that had road tested it. (Eugene Gonzales). I could have saved much money by buying one from the scrap yard myself. Given how easy it is to pull/replace the engine & tranny, I was going to buy one for $75 at the local junkyard and try it. ...Then rebuild it later if necessary.

But, like I said, the weather was warm (i was running short on free time) so I payed extra for a known good unit.

 

[Bugeye58]

George, Rivergate is getting $589.00 for the kit you need to install the Datsun tranny in a Spridget.
Sure trannys wear out like everything else, but there is no black art to rebuilding them. Just get a good service manual, read the <u>entire</u> pertinent chapter first, and then just do it. If you take your time, and follow the book, you shouldn't have any problems. One hint, though, is when in doubt, replace. If you think the synchros look sort of OK, then toss them and install new. VB sells an overhaul kit for the Sprite box, for $130.00, that includes synchros, bearings, gaskets,the rear seal, and a new layshaft.
Here's the link to Rivergate.

https://www.rivergate5speed.com/rivergate.html

Jeff

 

[George Zeck]

I am planning on doing the engine rebuild myself (with the help of a friend who's rebuilt non-LBC engine's before). Nervous but anxious at the same time.

Going to do a compression test and take off cylinder head this weekend and look inside. I suspect that it's corroded like the water pump & thermo housing -- thus requiring a "hot tank" cleaning (acid wash). If that's the case -- most likely will just buy a 1275 and a rebuilt head (mine or someone else's) and rebuild that engine and swap out when complete.

Since I will have everything apart; I thought it wise to consider the 5 speed upgrade "while I'm at it". Trying to watch the costs (I've spent more than it's worth and have not been able to drive it > 10 miles). Then again, after this, ALL major items have been addressed (engine, tranny, fuel sys, braking sys, cooling sys).

Since giving up on it for the season (I live in Cleveland, Ohio), this could be a slow winter project and I could learn a heck of a lot.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

The 5-speed kit is a significant amount of money, but I love what it did for the car. It makes trips on the interstate bearable, and makes in town driving more relaxing (1st gear syncro). If the car will be a summer daily driver (like mine) then I recommend the conversion.

 

[Super 7]

How are the ratios?

So many sedan transmissions have a low first and wide ratios.

 

[Bugeye58]

Paul, Rivergate lists the ratios here:

https://www.rivergate5speed.com/competition_use.html

Jeff

 

[Trevor Jessie]

1st and second are a little lower, with a big jump to thrid. Third is close to the ribcase, and fourth is 1:1.
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/midgetspriteclub/sprite/sprite5speed.htm

The above link has the ratio comparison. At first, I didn't like second being so low, but now I enjoy the opportunity to blow the soot out of the engine.

 

[regularman]

I was wondering about the ratios myself. I have one stripped down and I put a 3.55 diff gear in it and I have the datsun 5 speed already bolted up to the motor and ready to go back in when I finish the body restoration. If the 1st and 2nd is lower in the 5 speed then hopefully with the higher differential the gearing will be about the same when starting out.

 

[rickdaily]

Re: 5 Speed Tranny , 1979, 1500 Midget

I'm looking for a conversion kit for my 1979, 1500 Midget.
All mfr's exclude the 1500. Does anyone know why? If so,
please advise
Rick

 

[Trevor Jessie]

https://www.piercemanifolds.com/cylinderheads.htm

Scroll down the above page. There is a kit for a spitfire. They may be able to seill you just the parts you require.

Also see:
https://www.the-wizardsden.com/
but it still requires you find a decent type 9 gearbox (from a merkur)

 

[rickdaily]

I scrolled both sites. I'm actually looking for the Datsun conversion, as I think it would be easier to find a 210 tranny than a type 9 Ford If you or anybody else hears of one, please advise. Rick

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Well, there are fundamental problems that prevent the use of a 210 tranny. Bill at Rivergate once outlined these, but I don't remember the details. The other option would be to find a spitfire overdrive unit.
See here:
https://www.brit.ca/~tboicey/midget/midget_overdrive.html

 

[peeeot]

I have a Midget 1500 that I haven't taken on the highway yet(haven't had it licensed yet) but I've seen numbers and calculated some of my own for the highway rpms with the stock 4-speed. I assume that when you guys mention the 5-speed making highway travel more "bearable" you're referring to engine noise levels being reduced because of the lower rpms. I'm not sure how I'll feel about the engine noise, but I don't think a 5-speed is really an option for me in the near future, and I plan on using the car as a daily driver. This brings me to a couple questions:
1. Isn't it hard on an engine to run upwards of 3500 rpm for extended periods of time (highway cruising from 60-75 mph)?
2. A lower numerical ratio rear end could bring highway rpms down quite a bit. Are there any such rear ends that a Midget can accommodate? If so, to what degree would they compromise the car's acceleration performance?
3. My car's previous owner alluded multiple times to the Nissan 200sx's 5-speed as being compatible with the 1500 engine. Has anyone heard of this?

Thanks for the help, all!

 

[Trevor Jessie]

I've heard of no options other than the one's I've mentioned.
The later midgets (78-79?) had a 3.7 rearend, and the earlier 1500's had a 3.9. So, if your car has a 3.9 then a 3.7 would certainly be an improvement. I've also seen a few 3.55's but I am not sure of the source, and I'm not sure the 1500 would still accelerate well with that high of a rearend. 3500 rpms is high by todays standards, but the little engines can handle it with proper maintenance, and they will need a rebuild sooner than modern engines. The 1275 A series engines handle the rpm's better than the 1500's, but the 1500's have more torque.
There are no simple and cheap means to make a midget a highway cruiser. Maybe you could by an MGB for touring open roads and keep the midget for the backroad thrills (which they were designed for). Best of luck, and for the record I have a 1275 with a datsun 5 speed. I still run it at 3500 rpms and that is only 70 mph.

PS don't forget about the poor man's overdrive (bigger diameter tires)

 

[peeeot]

I appreciate the detailed information. I've watched tachometers in friends' 4-cyl new cars and been surprised at how high they wind up in normal (read non-aggressive) use. I used to have a Lancia Zagato with a 5-speed that still seemed to turn pretty high at highway speeds. At any rate, I never expected the midget to be a highway machine--one look at it is all it takes to figure that one out. I do drive at 60 mph fairly frequently though, usually not for more than 15 minutes or so at a time. I've been trying to keep a mind to the occasion when I might need to make a longer trip though. Can it be expected to get 100k miles out of one of these engines before needing an overhaul, given you start with a fresh rebuild and do routine service regularly?

 

[JPSmit]

I too am considering a new tranny while the engine is pulled (sigh, this job is getting bigger and bigger!) Anyway I was talking to a fellow about this and he recommended a website called www.car-part.com It is a search engine for wrecking yards. tragically a Spitfire overdrive tranny is available nearby (Instead of far away where I wouldn't have to worry) Now I might have to get it!

JP