HVDA 5 speed tranny

[prb51]

I do quite a bit of Highway driving and need another gear. Has anyone out there done Hermans HVDA toyota 5 speed conversion in a Tr3? I have a few questions.
To save some responses: I'd rather have the lighter more modern 5 speed box than find a reconditioned original overdrive unit. Cheaper/lighter/less maint but of course non original and that's ok as the HVDA is a drop in without modifying anything. I'll put the original tranny in the living room so I can shift gears when the wife takes the TV clicker.

 

[Brosky]

Bill's at the VTR with Hermann now. See below:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthread...p;page=0#235540

 

[prb51]

Yea, I saw that. Everything I've read about Herman has been very complimentary. It sounds like a very well engineered and complete unit.

 

[richards]

I have th HVDA in my TR6.
I got my W58 Toyota trans from Anaheim Gear (no FI) they sold me a rebuilt trans that they rebuilt and TESTED on their dyno, so I knew that I had a good trans before the install.
The stack height of the clutch and pressure plate is critical. Make sure you are also using the correct T.O. bearing (flat or round). Check with Herman on both of these items.
I am very happy with my set up. And while you are at it, rebuild the clutch master cyclinder, just to make sure all is ok.

The Toyota w58 may be the best of all the Toyota trans to pick from, IMHO.

Good luck and have fun.
Richard

 

[martx-5]

I just got the kit from Herman for my TR3 resto. It won't be going in just yet, but there are a few things different that have to be considered when using his kit for the TR3 or TR4.

You will have to use the pressure plate from a TR6. If you were going to change that item anyway, it's not a big deal. Herman recommends the LUK clutch, as some of the others have different mounted heights that might not be as compatible with the hydraulic throw-out bearing that is supplied in the kit. The other item of concern is the mounting of the TR6 pressure plate onto the TR3/4 flywheel. It doesn't bolt up, and will have to be machined with new threaded holes and dowel pins. I've heard that the TR4A flywheel that used the diaphragm clutch might work without the machining. Does anyone know if that's true or not??

Herman makes a high quality, complete and well thought out kit. He's also a joy to talk to.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[prb51]

Those are the questions I was going to ask. I would have put a new pressure plate in anyways but was not aware that the original Tr3 unit needed replacing or that the flywheel needed changing to another model unit. Anyone have any experience with the Tr4a Flywheel as asked above?

 

[CaptRoy]

I have the conversion kit in my garage and plan to install it in my TR3A when I finish the new motor (off to the machine shop this Sat). I went though the kit and it is a real quality setup!

As to the fly wheel. The late TR4A fly wheel will accept the TR6 pressure plate Herman recommends. A clutch plate is included with the kit. I have done a lot of searching and just located a late TR4A flywheel last week. I hope to have it in my hands soon so I can have everything balanced by the machine shop.

There is another option. Have your TR3 or 4 flywheel drilled to take the TR6 pressure plate and have it lightened to about 15lbs at the same time. I was going to go that route but Ted at TSI does not recommend it as there have been cases of lightened flywheels coming apart... Ouch! That could hurt as close as you sit to the drive train.

Hope this helps... I'm still a little concerned that I get the installation done properly. I have read, read, and re-read the instructions and have searched this forum for any information that will make the job a little easier...

I'll take pictures when I put it in and post here. I should be putting it in by the end of Sep...

 

[martx-5]

Thanks CaptRoy for the info on the TR4A flywheel. When you say late TR4A, are you refering to those that take the diaphragm clutch?? And do you know an when Triumph started using it??

 

[trboost]

I installed one about 2 months ago. It is a wonderfull alternative to the original overdrive. I agree that if your not into originality and want the reliability & performance of a 5-speed this is the way to go. Herman used to rebuild overdrives as a business but knew there was a better way. He got the idea from a kit used for Healy's and now casts his own bell housings & incorporates a McLeod 1400 hydraulic T/O bearing with it. The kit comes with it's own clutch disc specific to the HVDA (Toyota spline, TR dimensions).

I bought my W58 from a yard for $150.00 , changed the seals, changed the fluid & bolted it in. Herman gives you some tips on looking for signs of abuse & wear.

My car never had overdrive so the change is dramatic to me. I used to cringe taking a 3 hour trip with the motor reving at a constant four grand. Now 70mph is just under 3,000 rpm. The shift pattern is natural & the shifter is in the perfect spot. A slightly shorter throw is also a plus.

Installation was straight forward but it was not a walk in the park. The trany is still heavier than a stock 4-speed & it is awkward trying to support it and line up the spline & dowels. Setting up the Hydraulic T/O bearing looks much harder than it was but does require accuracy.

You will not regret it & the money is well spent. If you want to see some pictures , I have them on my link.

 

[piman]

Hello Prb51,

"Cheaper/lighter/less maint", OK, but not as good to drive as a 4 speed and overdrive, it's your choice but I would not have a 5 speed against an overdrive gearbox. I even have one on my Morris Minor Traveller.

Alec

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
The trany is still heavier than a stock 4-speed

[/ QUOTE ]

Mitch - Which one did you use?

The 4sp is about 75lbs. An alloy W58 'box is 35kg. They are almost exactly the same weight, and both seem a LOT lighter than an o/d transmission when you are trying to put one in...

 

[PeterK]

I put the Supra tranny in my 3A; 70mph turns 2500rpm in mine, 60 was around 2050rpm. Speedo is dead-on accurate; I run 205/60*15 Yokohama AVSs on KN wheels.

I used a 4A flywheel and all bolted up w/o problems.

I had a couple of issues to resolve with the kit:

1) The speedo cable is right on top of the exhaust pipe and needed to buy a right angle adapter to move it (see picture). Toyota p/n 83770-22120 $80

2) I sourced proper AN3 to SAE fittings (PegasusAutoRacing.com bulkhead union p/n 3226-03-03s $7.99 and Pegasus copper seal p/n 3202-03-copper 69cents). This replaces the fitting where the TR slave hose mounted and adapts the 42deg inverted flare from the master cylinder to the 37deg AN3 fitting from the T/O bearing hose without adapters. No leaks!

3) The throw of the shifter kept pulling out my shifter boot from the tunnel. So I drilled it and used speed nuts to keep it in. In reverse which is way over right and down, eventually tore the TR rubber boot so I am adding a leather boot over it for more flexibility.

4) I tried and tried to bleed it manually for over an hour and wound up buying a bunch of DOT3 (has anyone mentioned that silicone fluid is not compat with this T/O bearing?) and used my Motive pressure bleeder; this was the way to go and bled all air on the first attempt. Since the clutch/brake reservoir on the 3A is shared with the brakes, both systems use DOT3 only.

Here's what it looks like installed:
https://homes.midmaine.com/~kentech/hvda/installed.jpg

As far as weight, I lifted it and installed it by myself (I'm 155lbs) and I would guess a lot lighter than the TR although I would not like to install it again anytime soon.

Herman provides great support and I highly recommend this kit!

 

[mrv8q]

Peter, excellent post, thanks for the information. I've met Hermann; he's a terrific guy, and am glad to see his product is equally good! Someday my 3A will have the 5 speed, too.
Is that Dynamat in your car? Nice application, were you worried about rust forming under it, and are you happy w/ the results...

 

[prb51]

Gents,
Thanks for the informative replies that save so much investigative work and angst. This forum is one of the most effective tools in my toolbox.
Pat

 

[trboost]

Hi Alan,
I used the alloy W58. I didn't weigh it but it sur felt about twenty pounds heavier. If I remember correctly even Herman said it was heavier than the stock box but 50lbs lighter than the OD unit. I can tell you that at 11:00 PM , bending over the dash it felt a hundred lbs heavier than the old box !!!! I'm getting to old for this.

Now you have me wondering. I'm away this weekend at the Jersey shore but I'll check Hermans manual when I get back and let you know.

In either case your gonna love the trany & R200 diff. A world of differance. Truly transforms the car.

 

[Guest]

Just got in from the VTR, drove a TR250 with Herman's 5-speed. Quite nice, uses up a few more RPMs than my J-type. I cruise at about 300 RPM less than this guys 250, same rearend, similar tires. Nice idea, but I like my electric overdrive better. Soooo much easier to work in Dallas traffic, shifting with my pinky.


Bill


ps, you should see Herman van der Akker's TR250. He drove it in from Cal, with his wife, and it is typical Herman, lots and lots of super cool machine work and layout. He is a gas to talk to and so very helpful.

 

[PeterK]

Re: HVDA 5 speed tranny WEIGHT

Just weighed my TR250 4speed 75.8 lbs, Toyota pickup (non-aluminum) 5 speed W series with HVDA kit complete with shifter, knob and rear gearbox mounts 90.1 lbs. Supra tranny would be a little less.

Just in case anyone really wanted to know, now you do!

 

[Guest]

Re: HVDA 5 speed tranny WEIGHT

https://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/RWDgearboxes.htm

 

[PeterK]

Re: HVDA 5 speed tranny WEIGHT

great reference! Funny it doesn't list the pickup 2WD 5 speed that sits behind the 22RE engine (the one that I weighed and is common in the US). Our 3A has the Supra tranny (the one on top in this picture https://homes.midmaine.com/~kentech/hvda/compare.jpg ) The pickup box in at the bottom.