Rear axle hub - bearings

[64rocksprite]

So I tackled the rear brakes tonight. I have all the parts in and new bearings/seals while I'm back there.
Retaining nut came off using a 2" breakerbar with a good push.
I pulled the hub with a 2 arm puller, heard the small 'pop/bang' as it came free and came off without issue. I did have to use the puller almost the whole way to get them off, but with very little effort (this might be relevant below I hope).
Before removing the retaining nut and pulling, I noticed some play in the hub..I could move it back and forth about 1/8 to 1/4"...and noticed the hub was moving OVER the outer bearing race. Bearing still..hub moving. The worry sets in. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif
Hub on bench..I can turn the OUTER race with the hub stationary..uh oh. So I stick a finger through the bearing and behold..I dang near lift it right out of the hub. It didn't come all the way out, but prob 1/2 way. I flipped the hub over and with 3 light taps of the hammer/drift..it was out.
I went back to the axle housing, I can see where the bearing was riding and toward the back, nearest the pumpkin, there is a lip before the 'radiused'area, but the rest looks fine.

Questions (finally..)
1. From everything I know, this hub is junk. I would not think the outer race should spin inside the hub. Right?
2. I see no galling on any surfaces, but if it was well lubricated..perhaps there would be none?
3. Is that lip on the housing a sign of wear or a 'stop' for the bearing? It didn't seem large enough to be a machined stop, my guess is this is wear (lovely..now I need an axle tube) /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif
4. Is the root cause of this a lack of proper torque on the retaining nut? I didn't measure the removal torque..but a 2' breaker bar and I leaned on it..it easily could have been close to 140ft/lbs..not that break torque equals make-up I guess.

Just when I think..geez 2-3 more weekends and I'm ready to test-drive! Its been one step forward..two steps back so far. I know, I know, it'll be a better car for it when I'm done. It's just frustrating when that 'to-do' list stays at 20 things...even when you complete 3-4 items/weekend!!
heck, who am I kiddin..I still love the dang thing, I'm just ready to DRIVE it!!
Appreciate the help - thanks in advance!

 

[Sportsdoc]

I just went through replacing my rear brakes, bearings, etc.

The bearing outer race should not easily rotate within the hub. Mine were difficult to remove and I had to be very careful to tap them in symmetrically.

I also discovered there is a gap between the bearing and seal when the bearing is fully seated. And when the bearing is fully seated, it is basically flush with the hub or slightly inset.

Did you see how the new bearing fit in the hub yet? If it falls in, then I think you have a problem. If it fits properly, I would fit the hub to the axle tube and see how it fits before tackling the axle tube.

One last warning: On my passenger side the hub actually went on too far and pushed the bearing out. I had to repull it, retap the bearing in place and replace the hub while tapping on the bearing. This can cause the hub to hit the brake cylinder if you're not careful.

This my experience; I know you'll get more knowledgeable info here soon.

By the way, one of my recent posts was two steps forward, one step back, so I know what you mean!

 

[aeronca65t]

I would guess that the hub is junk. But only if you are sure that the bearing you took out is the correct one.

If it is the correct bearing, then maybe a previous owner seized a rear axle bearing. But that should have galled the inner surface of the hub (unless he smoothed it out and just put in a replacement bearing).

You may want to measure the inner hub diameter against the other side.

I have to admit that I'm wondering if your car just has the wrong rear bearing in it. It would be interesting to accurately measure the OD of that bearing against a known correct bearing (I've seen some non-Brit and non-US bearings that looked a bit sketchy in quality).

The machining on the axle housing is hard to predict but I guess it's supposed tos be a lip/stop. I have several and they all look a bit different. Not exactly Japanese QC.

Your hub nut should be tight (someone will chime in here with the exact number) but it should be in the area of 200 ft. lbs. Your 140 figure is at least reasonable. And even if it was half of that, I do not think it would cause the outer race to spin in the hub (at least in my opinion).

For what it's worth, many racers do not used the tab washer under the hub nut upon re-assembly. That washer can create problems in some cases. Most of us just use Locktite.

 

[Bugeye58]

Nial, 140 ft lbs. is the correct figure. And, just say "NO" to the tab washers.
Jeff

 

[64rocksprite]

Thanks all,
So I do have somewhat of an advantage..the only PO was my Dad!
He remembers breaking the axle on this side during an auto-x. I need to ask if he replaced the bearing as well or not. The replacement axle he got was from JC Whitney and it's a bit odd.(long story), perhaps he replaced the bearing as well..and the JCW bearing is to blame..!
Richard - I'll keep those tips in mind for the re-install!
Nial - I have a new set of bearings from VB..then again, who knows if they're right! But at least I can measure one against the other. I will measure both the hubs and also the OD of the new/old bearings.
I'll take some pics tomorrow to see what you guys think of the lip on the housing and the bearing surfaces. It was 2am last night when I called it quits.

Jeff and Nial- Why no washers? Interesting that they are replaced by loc-tite in racing..should be fine for the street then!

 

[aeronca65t]

Read ~THIS POST~. I think it is pretty well explained.

 

[64rocksprite]

Thanks Nial..I hadn't thought of that tab working against you. Makes sense, thanks for the link on the thread.
I'll check the OD..but my VB bearings are a product of India..so who knows. I might be checking bad against worse. Had I realized where these bearings are from I would not have ordered them and looked elsewhere. I guess I'll install them and keep an eye on them.
I will check the specs of the other hub and see what condition it is in as you suggested.
I think in the meantime I'll be looking for some hubs..perhaps some good used ones..I'll see if "oldgreynorm" has some for sale.
Will update later in the week with what I found on the other hub.
Thanks again!
Devin

 

[ChrisS]

I've got extra (used) hubs if you need one. The inside radius on the back of the bearing is important. If it is wrong the inside race will not sit against the lip on the axle tube. You can install the bearing without the hub and check that it does mate up to the lip. Unless the inner race spun on the tube I would think that the tube is fine. The bearing is really located by the lip and the tube nut so if there is a mark or two that needs to be cleaned up on the tube I think you're OK.

 

[64rocksprite]

Chris,
Appreciate the offer on the hubs, but I bought some used hubs from britishrestore first thing this morning..he had 'em on ebay, but they didn't go. Anyway they should be here by the weekend. I do appreciate the offer though!
I'll take some pics of the tube tonight and post them in the AM so you can have a look. it seems ok..but the 'lip' doesn't seem all that substantial. Anyway, perhaps with some good pics you guys can tell me if it is OK. Hopefully hubs are all I need.
THANKS!!
Devin