Its all gone pear shaped!

[Jeepster]

I was driving my BJ8 along the main road earlier on this week and went to change down a gear when something felt very wrong with the clutch. I managed to stop the car and get into first then started the car in gear and managed to get to safety.
The clutch pedal was very stiff and would not budge, and on checking the fluid level I found that it was still full.

I first suspected the master or slave cylinder but on closer inspection it was obviously far more serious.

So last night it was out with the gearbox and the problem was obvious. One of the springs had become detached from the friction plate and lodged itself in the backing plate.

There is very little wear on the friction plate so looks reasonably new? Has any one seen this happen before?

Just about to order a new clutch kit and then start the rebuild. I am dreading trying to get the engine/bell housing bolts back in, it looks like a real nightmare job.

 

[wolf]

Not with a Healey but I had that problem with my jeep CJ7 . Happened with no warnning signs , I was only half mile from my house ( going from first to second gear ) so I started it in reverse gear and backed home .

 

[John Turney]

If you have a clutch centering tool, it's only a bad dream, not a nightmare.

 

[TimK]

Dondel asked for help removing a transmission. Since I have done mine 3 times in three years, I'd like to supplement the workshop manual instructions with my own experience and lessons learned.
Assemble tools. All the bolts were 9/16" (trans bell housing) or 1/2" (mounts, clutch slave cylinder). I used a cheap air compressor and air wrench.
Gasoline was used to clean oil off of transmission after removal. Yes, mine leaks a lot.
Remove seats.
I built a small bench to stabilize the transmission when lifting with the jack. It is 15" wide, 13" high and 9" deep


After jacking up the car about 15" I put jack stands under each of the two front suspension plates (under the springs) and each rear spring. The bench then fits under the transmission. If not, jack up the rear axle a little higher to get it in and then lower back on stands. Put a block of wood on a jack under the oil pan and jack up the engine just enough to support it (about 1/4" or less) when you remove the transmission. I use a basic scissors jack for this.

I have a side shift trans in a 1960 BN7, so removing the tunnel and the supplemental trans. cover are quite different than with the newer models with consoles. Once the tunnel cover(s) are off, start with disconnecting everything that connects with the transmission: not in any particular order -- overdrive solenoid wire, speedometer cable, drive shaft, clutch slave cylinder/ground strap, starter motor (I just remove bolts, pull it out a little and leave hanging).
The drive shaft can remain, but pushed to the side

Remove bolts holding rear transmission mount to chassis. I recommend replacing the rubber mounts with new ones if yours are soaked with oil and dissolving like mine were.
Remove the steady bracket and replace the rubber bushings with new ones or with poly bushings when you are ready to reinstall.

Start removing bolts from around bell housing. The ones on the bottom are easy because you can reach both nut and bolt at the same time.
Now put a floor jack under the transmission (or under the bench if you are using one like mine) and put gentle support on the transmission. Remove the side bolts. I had to put a close-end wrench on the nut from the engine compartment and then remove the bolt from inside the car hoping the open-end wrench snugged up to the the engine block and didnt' fall off. If you have a helper it goes twice as fast. Same deal with the top bolts. The top bolt at 11:00 (upper left) is a dowel bolt and must go back in the same place to locate the transmission properly. There is another one in the bottom right (5:00 position) Note the two longer bolts, I think they go into the engine block threaded holes without nuts. Just remember them when you remove them. With all the bolts removed and the transmission support on the jack, position youself at the back of the transmission sitting on the driveshaft tunnel straddling the transmission with your feet on the front panel. Lift on the rear of the transmission and pull back using your legs to push. You may have to use a screwdriver once you get a big enough crack to insert between engine plate and bell housing to free it up by a half inch or so. Then it should come out, the drive shaft may interfere somewhat, but work around it. I used a floor jack inserted from the rear so that the jack wheels would roll back with pulling the transmission backwards. Once free grab the bell housing and pull it to the passenger side.

The transmission with OD weighs about 130 lbs. but supporting one end with the car or the jack means you need lift much less weight. I did it with a weak back. I only needed my wife to get it completely out of the car.

Replacement is mostly the reverse of removal. The key is to get the transmission and engine in line. Getting the tranmssion shaft into the pilot bearing of the crankshaft may take a lot of wiggling and pushing. One of the three times I did it, I had to use a long 1/4" bolt in one of the bottom holes to draw the trans into position. The last time, I had an opening of about 1/4" to 1/2" at the top of the bell housing which I could see, but no amount of pushing would get it home. Finally I looked under the car and saw that the bottom of the bell housing was hitting the engine plate, but the engine/trans were too high. I lowered the jacks and it closed right up. So check the bottom gap periodically during your struggles. Don't forget tot reinstall the rear steady bracket and tighten it to keep the engine from shifting forward under heavy braking and causing the fan to tear up the radiator.

I'm going to stop here, but if you find this useful and want more info on replacing the clutch or installing a rear main lip seal, let me know.


Edited by TimK (07/21/11 03:18 PM)
Edit Reason: add steady bracket reminder
_________________________
Tim K.
1960 3000 BN7 (owned since 1981)
1973 Yamaha TX500 (Owned since new -- 11,000 lifetime miles)

 

[bob hughes]

Losing a friction plate spring - No

But having a broken spring for the levers on the back of the clutch housing - Yes

It happened before my time with the car, I should think, because of the amount of wear on the other parts of the clutch operational bits.

Ended up buying a whole new clutch housing, thrust bearing, and a clutch fork rebuild.

As to getting the gearbox back on, as the guys have already stated, you will need to centre the clutch plate with a tool when installing the clutch housing onto the fly wheel - this will help getting the gearbox shaft into the clutch system. Did you use timbers to support the gear box on removal? If you did then the problem should ease as you know the rough postion to replace them if they have been removed. If not, I would suggest that you start with a 4 or 5 inch width of timber placed under or flush with the bottom of the the engine plate and supported on two jacks, you will need to angle the timber down toward the engine. I am assuming here that you have already raised the back of the engine to get the box out, and you need to get that rake on the timber. It is then a matter of placing the gearbox on the timber and engaging the shaft into the clutch system and easing it down onto the back of the engine. The two top bolts act as locating pins and you are away. I must say it is also easier if you can fined a friend to help. I have photos of the arrangement but can not open them for some reason at he moment so can not help there.



Bob

 

[Keoke]

Bob

A spare old input shaft makes this job a piece of cake--Keoke

 

[bob hughes]

Bob

A spare old input shaft makes this job a piece of cake--Keoke

I agree, but for around 17 of our British Pounds ish you can buy a universal centring kit from Machine Mart - may be cheaper elsewhere, and it worked a treat.



Bob

 

[bob hughes]

Jeepster

Now that you are in there, give a thought to -

Possibly fitting a rear end seal to the engine crank shaft

Possibly renewing the spigot bush at the end of the crank shaft where the input shaft locates - could be some wear on the existing one.

Check out the fork in the bell housing for wear in the bushes etc. bell housing oil seals etc. best to sort the small things out at the same time, then you can close it all up with a resonable assurance that it will not need opening up again for a long time - hopefully.



Bob

 

[Jeepster]

The new clutch is now fitted and then gearbox re installed. It wasnt too bad a job. 3 hours to remove and about 4 to re fit.
I made up a centering shaft with a socket extension bar wound with insulation tape in the appropriate places. It worked fine.
I now to to re fir the interior carpets and seats etc but thought this would be a good time to replace the dash.

Thanks for the help.