Tune-up Foul-up

[Deleted member 451]

Guys, I need some help.
Over the weekend I was putting on my new silicon valve cover gasket so the car was going to be undriveable for 24 hours so I thought I would also change the points and condenser. I had aftermarket points in it that were getting a little old so I was replacing them with a set of Lucas points and condenser. After the change the car fired right up so I thought everything was OK. The next day I took the car out and it ran like crap. Wouldn’t wind over about 1500 RPM and had no power. I tinkered with the timing for about an hour but no luck. I finally dug the old condenser out of the trash and put it back on. In 40 years of working on cars and motorcycles I have never had a condenser fail or worse be bad out of the box like this one. My problem now is that I can’t find the sweet spot on the timing again. If I back it off enough that the engine doesn’t clatter it has no power, Advance it enough to have power and the sounds like your shaking a coffee can full of bolts. No matter where it’s set the idle is rough.

My first question is could the bad condenser have hurt my coil?
Second, I’ve seen Pertronix Flame-Thrower Electronic Distributors do these just bolt in with no modification? Looks like a decent deal for $200 dollars as my old distributor is probably due for a rebuild anyway.

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[TR4nut]

Bill-

If you are thinking of Pertronix, I think TRF still has their weekend sale going through today - Pertronix ignition + free coil for around $90. Not including the distributor, but pretty cheap.

Randy

 

[Tinster]

Randy,

Hasn't there been a lot of Petronix ignition failures?
I had my distributor professionally rebuilt and a Petronix
unit professionally installed at the same time.

The Petronix unit failed after less than 200 miles. I am
back with points and condensor and the car runs great for
over 1,000 now.

On the other hand- some folks swear by Petronix.

d /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif

 

[TR4nut]

Dale-

Yep, I've heard pros and cons on Pertronix, but TRF had a good price and I'm going to try it out on my TR4. There are also plenty of stories of bad condensors/rotors out there, and my last tow was due to points failure - so for me I don't see it is any more risk. Besides, I'll still keep a set of points/condensor in the trunk just in case.

Randy

 

[DougF]

Pertronix units are very sensitive to shorts and crossed wires. As long as the ignition system is functioning properly, so should the Pertronix.

 

[Tinster]

Yeah Randy,

I know what you mean. I had a breakdown due to a new rotor
with less than 10 minutes use on it. I now carry in my
trunk 3 sets of points/condensors and I think 5 rotors.
I also carry 3 spare coils and 2 spare fuel pumps since
they don't seem to last very long either.

I really hate being broken down!!

I won't say anything polical- like maybe the quality
control in the countries making our spare parts is not
up to British standards. The Boss might give me the boot!!

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

 

[2wrench]

Bold and proper for you to speak up, Dale. I felt
your pain for a long time. Then...bang. Old
set of points and u be with Willie Nelson singing:

On The Road Again

 

[DrEntropy]

Bill, I've had bad condensors right outta th' box. Can't see that killin' the coil, tho. Have you gone back in and made SURE the points gap is set and the contact surfaces are really clean? Static timing it would be my next suggested option.

 

[KVH]

Tune-up Foul-up and More

I've had a rotor go bad once in 56,000 miles, and a distributor in about 90,000 miles.

In both cases I was at a total loss to see what had worn.

How would one tell before it's too late? Is anything visual?


I trust the old technology here best, by the way. I can file and adjust points, and fix the timing, but unless I had a lot of tools or a spare pertronix handy at all times, I'd feel vulnerable to roadside camping.

 

[Tinster]

Hey Doc!!

That static timing is good procedure to post again.

The static timing is what finally got all the rebuilt
and replacement components of my engine to work together
so it would finally start. If you find the time could you
type out the procedure again?

I'm sure a lot of folks could use the lesson. This time,
I'll print it out and keep it. I promise.

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/savewave.gif

dale

 

[TR4]

Dale-

Yep, I've heard pros and cons on Pertronix, but TRF had a good price and I'm going to try it out on my TR4. There are also plenty of stories of bad condensors/rotors out there, and my last tow was due to points failure - so for me I don't see it is any more risk. Besides, I'll still keep a set of points/condensor in the trunk just in case.

Randy

I changed to Pertronix 3 years ago and my 4 has run great ever since. Yes, I do keep the point set up in the trunk as a back up.

 

[Deleted member 451]

I talked to Jeff this morning and ordered a Pertronix and an extra Breaker plate assembly. If the Pertronix dies I can put in the plate with the points and condenser installed and set already. That should get me home.

 

[Tinster]

Bill,

That's exactly what I did. Jeff rebuilt my dizzy,
installed the Petronix and made me a breaker plate
assembly for backup.

I was fortunate. While my Petronix died in under 200 miles;
I was able to creep into my garage at home before it quit
all together.

That Canada Guy Dave tore out the Petronix and installed
Jeff's old fashioned breaker plate. I've been driving ever since.

I wonder why some folks have good/bad luck with Petronix units?

d

 

[swift6]

Dale, weren't you also having other electrical problems when your Pertronix crapped out? The two were probably related.

 

[Tinster]

I'm not sure Shawn. My car eats coils so the burned up
Petronix might have been coil fried?

I haven't burned up any coils in probably over 4-500 miles
now. I should probably install a new coil as routine
maintenance, come to think of it! Excellent point!

Thanks,

d

 

[DrEntropy]

BAH! I've an original Lucas in the MGB. MAYBE it was replaced once... before 1988. Coils shouldn't go bad that frequenly, Dale.

 

[Brosky]

I think that Dale may have had a grounding issue back then that went undetected for a short period of time. And that is long enough to fry a Pertronix and a coil.

 

[Deleted member 451]

Received the Pertronix unit from Jeff last night and installed it. I was amazed at how easy it was. Hit the starter and it fired right up. Did a quick timing adjustment and took it for a drive. The car runs better than it ever did, smoother, faster, and not a bit of clatter when accelerating. I’m sure I could advance the timing a little and get a little more out of it.
I’ve been running the same Lucas Sport Coil for about 30,000 miles so I know I don’t have any obvious ignition issues, so I might get good service from it.
For now I’m really sold.

 

[Tinster]

Good on ya! Jeff does wonderful work. A true
craftsman. 30,000 miles from a coil?? Unbelievable,
to say the least.

Best wishes and have a blast driving.

dale

 

[martx-5]

Hey Doc!!

That static timing is good procedure to post again.

The static timing is what finally got all the rebuilt
and replacement components of my engine to work together
so it would finally start. If you find the time could you
type out the procedure again?

I'm sure a lot of folks could use the lesson. This time,
I'll print it out and keep it. I promise.

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/savewave.gif

dale

I wrote this procedure up for the TR3-4 engine awhile back. The procedure is basically the same for the TR6 except for the knurled timing nut business. In that case you can set the timing mark on the pulley to where you would set if using a timing light. I'm pretty sure that the TR6 distributor rotates in the same direction as the TR3-4, so the procedure should work fine for the TR6.

TR3 timing is supposed to be set statically...without the engine running.

The procedure as I do it...Make sure your points are set to spec first.

1. On the side of the distributor is a knurled nut that is used to advance and retard the timeing. You will see an A and an R with an arrow. There are also graduations there. One of the graduations is longer then the rest. That's the midpoint...set the timing adjuster there.
2. Bring the engine up to the timing mark on the pulley by turning the engine clockwise as looking from the front. If you go by it, don't back off. Go around again, as you don't want to introduce timing chain slop into this. Now the engine is at TDC.
3.Loosen the clamp on the dizzy.
4. Hook up a test light or voltmeter to the point side of the coil, and turn on the ignition.
5. If the test light is on, turn the dizzy CCW until the light goes out, and then turn it back (CW) until it just goes on.
If the test light is out, turn the dizzy CW until it just goes on.
6.Tighten the dizzy clamp.
7.Turn the knurled nut in the advance direction 2 graduations. Each gaduation is two degrees.

Timing is now set for 4 deg BTDC. You can use the knurled nut to make any running adjustments now, and always know where your timing is set.

I read through what I wrote three times and it seems to be right. It's alot different just doing something then writing about how to do it. I'm pretty sure I got the procedure correct. I hope the CW-CCW thing is correct. Normally, I just check which way the rotor turns and decide then.
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