TR2/3/3A TR3 Rebuilt Engine Oil????????????

[bluemiata90]

I just got finished rebuilding my TR3 engine and have a question about the start up oil to use. I remember reading somewhere about regular modern engine oil is not good for breaking in a rebuilt engine. Something about the additives. I did a search, but could find any information about this. Is there a problem with just using regular 10/40 oil for the first 100 miles or so. I think the post stated something about using a detergent oil instead. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TR3driver]

I've heard lots of myths. Currently, the only two I believe in are not using synthetic oil (which makes sense anyway since you are going to throw it away in a few hundred miles); and adding GM's EOS break-in additive (or similar) with extra ZDDP (only for the break-in oil).

The advice to run the engine at fast idle (like 1500-2000 rpm) for the first 15-20 minutes appears to be good, too.

 

[Adrio]

Also don't forget to turn the oil pump with a drill or something before starting the engine so that you get that oil circulated all through the engine at pressure before the forces of the running engine are at play.

To do this remove the dizzy and insert some home made rod attached to a strong drill and engage the rod to the oil pump and turn until you have oil pressure for a bit.

 

[SCguy]

I followed what Randal said about GM's EOS additive, primed my TR4 engine as it had been sitting for a long period since it's rebuild and ran a fast idle for 20 minutes.

Everything is still going strong after about 150 miles! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banana.gif

 

[tomshobby]

Did the same. My engine builder recommended doing the 20 minute cam/lifter break-in in segments of 5 to 10 minutes so the engine did not get too hot. Then I did my first oil change after the first 100 miles and the second after 500 miles then regular intervals. I only used the EOS in the first break-in period.

I did do some research to find oil with zinc in it which I felt important but others are not convinced it is worth the effort.

 

[Don Elliott]

I rebuilt the engine for my TR3A in July. I put in new rings after having the bores honed. Also new bearing inserts for the con-rod big ends and the crankshaft plus a new rear main bearing seal. I put the original cam back into the block, I had left the original bearings in the block and still have all the original rockers and rocker arm. I added a pint of AC Delco EOS to the Castrol 10W30 even though I still have most of the original flat tappets. The ones that are not original have about 50,000 miles on them. I broke it in over a period of 90 miles and left the day after for VTR near Philadelphia, a distance of close to 600 miles. It ran fine and is still running fine. After 3500 miles, I was back home and changed the oil. I added another pint of EOS. Just in case.

 

[bluemiata90]

Thanks for all the great advise. I think I'll just add the oil additive and not worry about the oil. It almost appears that I must have read this oil issue on a different site, considering I have several different model cars, cause I'm sure if it was on this site, someone would have remembered it. Anyways, I feel confident that the breakin additive will be enough. Thanks again.

 

[Banjo]

No, it's an issue that's been in here too. I believe the issue is around the lack of zink in modern street type oils.
It is not good in solid lifter cam engines. especially in freshly rebuilt engines. It causes premature cam wear.
Using an oil labled as "racing oil" usually bypasses this issue.
Locally here Bradd Penn oil is an excellent choice. thier racing oil meets the needs of older engines.
I'd definatly go with the break-in additive too.

 

[Bugeye58]

The last five or six engines I've built have all been broken in on Valvoline Racing straight 40wt, and assembled with Red Line assembly lube. Only one had problems, and that was traced to a faulty lifter.
Jeff

 

[YankeeTR]

EOS is good stuff...been using it since 1967 in everything i've redone.

 

[glemon]

I have read a lot about the zinc issue and believe it is a very real concern. Most critical is break in, I am using Brad Penn racing oil too. A freind in my club is a lube marketing guy for a truckstop chain, and says the situation changes rapidly, but basically they are reducing the ZDDP because it is bad for catalytic converters.

https://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

The safe route seems to be adding a small amount of GM EOS with each change or using a pure racing oil, I am using Brad Penn as well, the oil guy got us a deal on it at $36 a case, not much more than Castrol, etc.

 

[RonMacPherson]

In my profession, I have seen many, many engines with lubrication failure.

Almost every single one of the valve train problems was due to improper lube. ZDDP is no longer used in almost every street automotive oil sold in the US. You can still find it in European market oils and in motorcycle oils, some racing oils also use it.

There have been several articles in issues of Hot ROd also, about the cam/lifter failure due to insufficient lube capability of the oil.

Just about every single mail delivery truck built on the Ford Explorer chassis has had to have the engine replaced due to wear issues on the valve train because the oil wasn't capable of handling the duty of the delivery cycle; i.e. start cold, accelerate, stop, extended idle, then accelerate, stop, extended idle, ad nauseum.

I strongly recommend that for any nonroller tappet engine that you use oil with zddp in it. It damned sure won't hurt and more than worth the little extra effort to locate and purchase the oil protection.

 

[TR3driver]

The last five or six engines I've built have all been broken in on Valvoline Racing straight 40wt

Me too, but it appears that VR has been reformulated as well as the other oils. There are now multiple varieties of Valvoline Racing, and even the "Not street legal" stuff apparently has less ZDDP than the original racing oil did.

Valvoline's web site gives current zinc content as .12% by weight; while the old "Motor Oil FAQ" by Ed Hackett gave it as .20% (in 1999).
https://www.valvoline.com/products/Specialty%20Racing%20Oils.pdf
https://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

It also appears that even the diesel truck oils are being reformulated with less zinc (although they have added boron which is supposed to work in a similar fashion).

 

[Bugeye58]

Thanks for the updated info. Time to do some more research.
Jeff

 

[Dave Russell]

Randall,
I totally agree with you. It's impossible to know from the various conflicting claims, just what an oil contains these days. I suspect that Valvoline is telling lies or at least distorting the truth. Their numbers seem to change regularly as probably their oils do also.

Until the whole show gets straightened out, if it ever does, I'm using 16 ounces of GM EOS #1052367 with each oil change of Valvoline "racing" oil.
D

 

[Hasbeen]

In the 60s I raced a Morgan +4. In 1962 these came with a TR3A engine. It was fully race prepared, & when I started racing it had 120BHP at the wheels, at 4500RPM, which was where I always tuned it. I was using 6500 RPM as a red line, & having the big end slipper, in the cap only, down to copper in 40 miles of racing. Every thing else was fine. Reducing the revs to 6000 made no difference

After about 6 months, I started winning a few races & was invited to join the Shell Racing Team.

I told them of my big end slipper problem, & they gave me Rimula X high detergent diesel oil, & a jar [about 2 egg cups full] of zink to add to it, only when the oil was in the engine, & warm.

This increased my big end bearing life to about 60 miles, before they were down to copper.

I then co-drove a car in the Bathurst 500 mile race, which was run on SAE 10, & STP oil treatment stuff, on a deal with STP. I was impressed when the thing gave no trouble.

They talked me into trying their stuff in the Morgan's TR3A engine, without telling Shell of course.
I only raced the Mog for another 6 months, but I had worked up to 180 racing miles on Rimula X, zink, & STP, with no sign of the big end slippers getting down to copper.

I have never run an engine without STP since.

As an added bonus, it stopped that dreadful bearing rattle, when you start the old Triumph 4 pot, after standing for a day or two, & almost, [but not quite] stopped the rear main leaking.

Phil

 

[Don Elliott]

It's true that we don't know the latest percent of zinc in any recently re-formulated oil.

I have used EOS twice so far this summer on my re-built engine but who knows if EOS might also have been re-formulated with less of the additives we are looking for ?

Many of the TR racers are using Brad Oil.

 

[PeterK]

A pint of EOS is added to every freshly built racing engine at the machine shop I go to. Their break-in formula also includes a 4oz shot of Lucas oil stabilizer and a 150ml bottle of PowerUp NNL690 Boundary Lubricant https://www.maryngroup.com/product_information/power_up/nnl690.htm .

The machinist said the Lucas helps the oil stay put better. I hear people sometimes saying the all the Lucas stuff is "snake-oil" but every machinist I've talked to has used the stuff and some even saying that they use ALL of the Lucas Oil products. YMMV. I use the oil product in the 3A.

After break-in, EOS is added at a rate of .50-.60oz per quart of engine oil. So I've been using +-3oz per oil change.

hth

 

[tomshobby]

It's true that we don't know the latest percent of zinc in any recently re-formulated oil.

I have used EOS twice so far this summer on my re-built engine but who knows if EOS might also have been re-formulated with less of the additives we are looking for ?

Many of the TR racers are using Brad Oil.

Having seen the almost sneaky way the oil companies have reduced the zinc, I share this concern. I called a couple of companies and relayed my concern for the reduction of zinc and they agreed with that concern. I asked if they had an oil to recommend and the amount of zinc in the recommended product. I ended up with Citgard 500 with .12 percent zinc. I know, Chevas, or whatever the idiot's name is.
The point is that the levels seem to be changed without notice and it seemed calling and asking was the best way to know what I was getting.

I also checked on EOS with GM and they do not recommend it other than for the break-in period. They did not say why. But I do agree with some, it is some assurance.

Never heard of Brad oil. Can someone elaborate?

 

[billspit]

Brad penn oil is 54.95 per case + shipping.