TR2/3/3A VERY wobbly TR3 - help needed!!!!

[Alphonso61]

Hi I have been looking to but a very well restored TR3 (1957) but it is extremely unstable on the road. Investigating it, the springs and shocks are very good but pushing sideways on the rear wing causes the whole car to move, and the pushing repeatedly causes the car to oscillate with the front moving in the opposite direction.

On the road this leads to the feel of the rear end wanting to go sideways at anything over 40mph so steering correction is needed, and that then sets up further uncontrolled movement. Its like towing a caravan without a stabiliser!

The wheels are original steel rims on new Firestone F560 165/15 tyres. On the 'rear wing push test' it is clear all movement is in the tyres as the wheels keep alignment with the body.

I have tested another TR3 on wires with the same tyres (a bit older) and there is NO MOVEMENT beyond what would be normal.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE??

Could it be the original steel rims being narrower than the wires are leading to additional flexing of the sidewalls?? Could the newer Firestones be poorer quality than the old?

At present the car is frankly undriveable safely, despite a very professional and detailed restoration.

ANY suggestions would be welcome here



Many thanks

 

[NutmegCT]

Most important and useful suggestion: don't buy the car. "Well restored" and "extremely unstable" don't play well together.

Unless you own a professional, long-experienced, body shop.

Welcome to BCF!

 

[Alphonso61]

It’s been well restored, it’s a tyre/rim issue somehow. It doesn’t rock when pushed from the sides so it’s unlikely springs or shocks. All movement is on the tyres which are at 30psi

 

[mezy]

My advice would be to tell the seller to sort it or walk away, only two options,

 

[Sarastro]

I'd bet dollars to donuts (or, these days, donuts to dollars) that it's not the tires. Something is dreadfully wrong, and it's hard for me to think that new tires of a good make are causing this. There are so many things that can go wrong in these cars that it's foolhardy to buy one with a problem that is not understood but could be very serious. Keep looking.

 

[Hamish Racing]

Springs and suspension links would be my first thought.
you really shouldn’t be able to push the rear of a 3 sideways with those leaf springs !!

 

[Alphonso61]

I hear what you all say - however it’s a really excellent car, almost show condition but with disc conversion, steering rack and TR4 head, brake servo and it’s immaculate. The dealer thinks there ‘may’ be something wrong but will undoubtedly look to find a buyer who doesn’t realise the issue. One option is to purchase and sort it myself but scrapping the tyres and buying new ones won’t solve it if it’s something else like the rim width/tyre combination.

To add a bit of context, I've rebuilt 3 classics from the ground up - a Willys Jeep (and their leaf spring shackles are something else!) and two 1970 TVR's so I'm familiar with spanners

Is there anyone on here with steel rims on a TR3?

 

[bobhustead]

I have a 3 on disc OEM wheels. It does not behave as you describe. Almost nothing is not fixable, but I would figure this out before you buy.
Bob

 

[Fern]

So…. Just returned from the garage to shake my 60 3A. It does move a bit when pushing sideways on the body at the rear wheels. However the tires hardly flex. The body oscillates a bit, but not 3 inches. Maybe 1 inch tops. I believe most of that sideways movement is from the geometry of the front suspension….even with new bushings.
You might have 2 issues. The first is something needs tightening on the front. The second is wheel alignment which might explain the movement over 40 mph. Can’t see it being the tires.
Good luck.

 

[Alphonso61]

I just can’t seem to upload videos. and it turns gifs into photos????

 

[Alphonso61]

This is it to just show how bad it is - and the pushing want particularly hard!!!

 

[NutmegCT]

Definitely shows the sideways shaking on the rear body. Does it do the same when pushing sideways on the front wing/fender? The wheels are moving sideways too. Not good.

I'm still thinking - don't buy the car. If it's in such good condition otherwise, why doesn't the seller fix it?

Tom M.

 

[Alphonso61]

There’s no movement of wheels in relation to the body - look at the wheel in relation to the rear fender, and you can see the front going in the opposite direction. The movement appears tyres which you can clearly see in the vid?

 

[Popeye]

Are the rear shock links present?

 

[malbaby]

Something is amiss from what you say about the poor driveability of the car.
There is some tyre flex at the rear, which is normal on those tyres, but otherwise ok.
The movement seems to be mainly at the front.
I would be looking at the front suspension, steering and tyres in the same way by originally pushing as you have done at the rear.
Assuming that the problem is not a chassis issue [highly unlikely], it should be a relatively easy fix.
You would need the car on a hoist to investigate further, checking suspension bushes etc.
It certainly would not stop me from buying the car. [Gives you some price bargaining power].

 

[DavidApp]

Just checked my TR3A and could not get any sideways movement when I push like you seem to be doing. The tires in your video do seem to be giving a lot. Do not think I would want to corner too fast on tires that flex like that.
I have 165/60R 15 tires.

David

 

[Alphonso61]

There’s no movement of wheels in relation to the body, and you can see the front going in the opposite direction. The movement appears tyres which you can clearly see in the vid?

 

[Alphonso61]

Here are longer videos. If anyone has any idea what the heck is going on let me know - and the clicking is loose stuff in the bottom and hood frame!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[mezy]

I would jack up the rear and put chocks under rear axle to eliminate any tyre problem this will tell you if the issue is with the tyres or the suspension,
do the same at the front

 

[Alphonso61]

I would jack up the rear and put chocks under rear axle to eliminate any tyre problem this will tell you if the issue is with the tyres or the suspension,
do the same at the front

Very good idea.
I’m away from the area for a week now but on return I’ll go and do that, plus take a couple of old TR3 wheels I have and try them.