TR2/3/3A TR3 Bottom End bearing change

[prb51]

Opened up the 3 to change the thrust bearings/big ends/mains and this is what I found.
https://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/prb51/DSC01076.jpg
https://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/prb51/DSC01075.jpg
https://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/prb51/DSC01077.jpg

Everything was in order, clean, and looked normal. The screen on the oil filter has a rip in it so it will be replaced.
The sump was spotless inside, nice surprise.
The oil pump, original or new old stock, showed no wear whatsoever when checked with a feeler gauge in the designated areas. This looks to be the original oil pump and has no wear at all.

 

[AltaKnight]

Looks pretty good, how many miles on it?
Have you got a bearing out yet to have a look?

 

[YankeeTR]

Except for the varnish (which is pretty typical) on the parts it looks good....

 

[prb51]

I don't know the mileage as the PO passed away and I bought it thru a 3rd party. He rebuilt it and I have all of the receipts/pics etc. but no idea where the Odo was when he finished. He finished in late 98 but I've no idea how much he drove it.
The main center bearing was within specs so I'll leave the mains alone.
I changed the thrust and have .004 clearance using the new standard thrust bearings.
I'll change the big ends tomorrow.

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

Wow, that looks great. When I pulled my oil pan off and looked up at the crank it looked much like yours. But when I looked in the pan, it was nothing like yours. There was at least a half inch of sand/mud down there. I don't think my engine had been run much since it was rebuilt -still hone marks on the cylinder walls. I also don't think it was turned over after it was under water, so the crank is safe. My psitons were rusted to the liners, all are out, but some are still attached to the liner.

You should be quite pleased with what you have there.

What prompted you to tear your engine down?

Jer

 

[TR3driver]

Somewhere I've seen a Tech Tip, written by Ken Gillanders I think, about using 3 or 4 lengths of solid copper wire to tie the oil pump pickup screen to the pickup tube along the length of the screen. He felt that helps keep the wires from breaking right at the blob of solder. The wires thread into the screen to go over the top of the tube, then outside the screen to go under it.

And it did seem to help on my TR3A.

 

[tdskip]

Opened up the 3 to change the thrust bearings/big ends/mains and this is what I found.

Thanks for the pictures.

I'm trying to get myself psyched up to do the same on my TR3.

Could I trouble you to request more pictures and narrative as you push through this?

 

[prb51]

Tdskp,
I put the bearings in last night but didn't photo stuff as I was oily (I used bare hands doing the bearings as I wanted to be able to feel any grit when handling bearings and the crank) and I would have made a mess doing it.
However, I can take some more pics of the areas/access as I'm waiting for a new oil pump screen and gasket. Remeber to buy the oil pump gasket as that unit must come off for access.
I put the car on front jackstands only, as high as I could get it, plenty of room.
Drain oil and while the oil is draining disconnect battery and remove spark plugs/dipstick.
Clean the sump exterior if grungy.
Remove sump, watch for the spacer on the clutch slave cylinder support. Swing both the slave cylinder rod and crankcase vent support out of the way.
Remove sump slowly so the windtray doesn't fowl the pump.
Remove the oil pump as a unit.
There is plenty of room to work and everything is accessable with some extensions.
A good time to check your thrust end play with a feeler gauge.
I removed the main center bearing lower half and the two lower TB'ings come out in place. Use one of the old thrust bearings to push the uppers around til you can grab an end. To assist this push the crank one way or the other to take pressure off the bearing. They come out pretty easy and are easily replaced. Oil them up prior to replacement.
Replace the main bearing and torgue to 85/90 lb and recheck end play.
I plastigauged my main and it was ok so I did not have to replace the bearing. I suggest that unless you know you're well worn.
The front/rear bearings are available with room to work just do one bearing at a time. You can use the old bottom bearing to push the upper bearing out as you rotate the crank (noting the bearing tab location). The ends of the upper bearings are plainly visible so you can tell if they are properly centered and seated. Just be careful with the crank.
There is also plenty of room to work with the felt packing in the rear and the front. You'll just be pushing up rather than down so it could be messier depending on what you soak the felt in.
The big ends are easy. Disconnect one at a time keeping the bolts matched to their original position. There is a sleeve on the big end lower bearing cap. This sleeve is on the higher bolt going into the Con Rod and aligns everything and also makes them stick together with the bolts out so you have to work them apart. Not to hard. I backed the bolts out some and held the assembly firmly on the crank and tapped with a rubber malet to back them out.
Push the piston up a tad so it won't fowl the crank and remove bearings.
Make sure the bearing seat is clean/ not oiled and seat bearings. Reoil the bearing surfaces (finger dipped in oil) and reattach. Once you get going it goes quickly. If you use the tabbed washers on the rods you can bend the tabs closed with set of pliers. Easier than hammering. I did use a short drift to open them and also used locktite on the bolts.
The diff part will be sealing the front rear so take your time here. The front looks rather easy.
I'll take some more picks showing the accesability and post them.
Oh yea, I cleaned the sump and contact areas with solvent and used gasket maker along the outside and around the holes. I sealed the gasket in place and removed any that invaded the inner sump/gasket edge then put the gasket face down on a glass sheet (flat) and weighted the top. It's dried and solid now so when mounting I'll just use hylomar on the other side and not have a moving gasket to play with.

 

[RonMacPherson]

One thing I would give some attention to is the oil pump. It looks as if you do have some grooving on the rotors. Any groove that you can catch a fingernail in, while dragging the fingernail across the grooves is considered accelerated wear in the auto industry. Usually cause for replacement or refurbishment.

Probably just a flat sheet of glass and some fine sand paper or emery cloth and you can flat sand the rotors(I would sand them together at the same time) to cleanup the grooving, also the pump cover if it also exhibits the grooves.

When you reassemble try for minimum clearances between the cover and body/rotors and towards the maximum of specs between the rotors. Oh I wish Melling made high performance pumps for Triumphs.........

 

[prb51]

Ron,
How would that scoring effect operation? It really is pretty uniform.
When laying a flat edge across that area (as per manual)to measure wear it shows no wear at all when measuring with a feeler gauge.
Is there another wear issue?

 

[Guest]

A tip for photographing stuff that I've used a few times.

Use a set of disposable latex gloves. Put them over your dirty hands to handle the camera then take them off again when you want to do more wrenching.

 

[TR3driver]

How would that scoring effect operation?

IMO, not enough to worry about. Given the horror stories I've heard of defective new pumps, I'd leave well enough alone.

The scoring was caused by dirt or grit in the oil, but it looks to me like it was already previously assembled that way. That means the end plate will have already worn to match the scoring; I don't think you'll have any further issues with it. And that scoring is light enough that it wouldn't wear very far before matching anyway.

 

[prb51]

I tend to agree with you Randal as she will pump up beyond 70 psi on a cold morning with 20/50 so I try and keep the revs down until she's warm.
It is an original pinned rotor and vane and well made so I'll just leave well enough alone.
Maybe in time I'll smooth things out at the next rebuild.

 

[RonMacPherson]

Scoring on a lubricated surface, is (1) an alternate path for directed lubricant to follow, (2) an indication of wear starting, once wear starts it almost never stops.

I still recommend, at the very least, to sand smooth the cover. That will only take a few minutes and it will help entrap the oil as there will no longer be an alternate path for the oil to escape.


I have repaired, refurbished, modified, and replaced a vast number of pumps, from motorcycles, VW's, Porsches, Alfas, MB's,GM's, Fords, Hondas and Triumphs. This is the heart of the engine, and my preference is to see that it is pristine.

It is your car and you should do what you want, I'm just offering my experience and advice.

 

[RonMacPherson]

That 70 plus cold, is it at idle or at speed? What does the pressure drop to after warm at idle, and above 1500 rpm.

Basic rule of thumb is anything over 10 psi for each 1000 rpm is sufficient for proper lubrication, i.e. 2500 rpm then at least 25 psi. Excess over that with an overhead valve engine is wasting energy. I would check your relief valve and spring.

Dunno what the 3 manual calls for but if it is 70 cold at idle I would be scared of popping seals and gaskets, overpowering the valve guides.

 

[prb51]

Ron,
The relief valve should kick in at anything beyond 70 psi and normally does but when cold it has trouble keeping up with the thick oil. I'm refering to accelerating when the oil is still cold.
At cold idle the car is about 50 psi. and that's normal for a TR3.
At dead hot idle (Phoenix, Az area about 110 ambient) I still get 25/30 psi.
I should get 70 psi in 4th gear in the 40 mph range.