TR2/3/3A Priming new engine with oil

[Joel Lester]

I have completed my engine rebuild and getting close to trying to start it up for the first time. I dumped the break-in oil in and turned the engine over for awhile - no oil pressure registering on my oil pressure gauge. Have you guys found it necessary to "prime" the oil system with a drill attached to the oil drive shaft to the oil pump?
I have one of those gear reduction starters and it seems to turn the engine over pretty fast and I figured that would be enough to get the oil flowing. But maybe not? Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
BTW - the oil pressure gauge is newly rebuild and calibrated so I doubt that the issue.
Thanks in advance!
Joel

 

[bobhustead]

I just spin them over with the starter with plugs out. I have never done so with a gear reduction starter (slower RPM, judging from the name).
Bob

 

[Joel Lester]

Bob - how long would it normally take? Seems like I was turning her over for awhile - like a minute or two...

 

[sp53]

I would suspect the new gauge; it should not take more than a minute maybe two minutes. Do you have a different gauge? perhaps unhook the gauge at the firewall and see if oil runs out. If the gauge is in the dash, they can be difficult to remove if the heater and glove box are in place. That is a tough place to be not having a working oil pressure on a start up.

Maybe go get new cheap after market set and see if it will work. I bought a new aftermarket mechanical oil and water gauge to have second opinion for calibration. The water gauge had fitting that fit right into the old hole and the oil had a plastic line with fittings and I could watch the oil move in the plastic line. i put the aftermarket set off to the side on the firewall and left the old gauges in place

steve

 

[CJD]

The pump is submerged in the oil pan, so no priming is required. Also, spinning a new engine with new camshaft and lifters is very hard on the cam, as it gets no lubrication until the crank starts slinging oil...and you are scraping what oil there is off the lobes. You would have to crank for a long time at cranking speeds to push all the air out of the galleries on a new engine. It will come up quickly after starting if you follow the following process:

On my initial start-ups I have the distributor removed and turn the oil pump with a screwdriver...just at hand speed until I see oil coming up the distributor gear hole. This ensures the pump is working. I then insert the distributor, time it with a test light on the points with the crank TDC indicator 3/8" BTDC. With practice this takes about 1 minute. Finally, I have left a quart or two of oil to add over the valve train, so it flows down the pushrods, and hopefully some gets to the cam for initial start. Then the valve cover goes on, just loosely, since I will be checking valves after the first run.

I then make sure I have a fully charged battery, I pump fuel into the carbs, pull the choke out fully...and crank her up so she starts with minimum cranking. Once she starts, I set the idle using the choke to 2000-2500rpm, to provide the maximum splash oiling to the cam and lifters. If there is no start in the first 5-10 seconds of cranking, then look everything over, as something is off. During the high idle initial run, for about 15-20 minutes and while the engine is coming up to temperature, you have time to look EVERYTHING over for oil pressure, leaks, loose parts, proper charging. Shut down immediately and take care of any issues you find...then re-crank and continue.

After the first run, allow her to cool down. Re-adjust valves, check coolant and oil levels, retorque the head bolts, and final install the valve cover. Now you are ready to restart, bring her up to temperature, and set the mixtures and idle speed on the carbs. Idle should be a little high, but not over 1000rpm. Now you are ready for a road test, and to seat the piston rings.

Seating the rings envolves finding a road where you can accelerate and decelerate without numb nuts tailgating you. Bring her up to about 30mph and shift into 4th gear. Now, accelerate full throttle to about 50-60mph, then let her decelerate back to 30mph at idle power. Repeat this a good 10-15 times. Accelerating loads the rings and maximizes their pressure against the cylinder walls to lap them to the cylinders. Decelerating creates enough vacuum to pull oil up the cylinder walls to cool and lubricate the cylinders, pistons, and rings.

Now just have fun with it! After about 500 miles you can final set the idle speed to between 600 and 750, check the valve clearances and check the head torque one last time for the life of the rebuild. This is just a check...as anything loose may indicate an issue developing.

 

[Joel M]

I did initial startup on my engine a couple years ago by engaging the starter with plugs out until pressure built up on the gauge. If I remember correctly, it took maybe 45-seconds to a minute with the original starter.

 

[DavidApp]

Make sure you have not lost the oil pump woodruff key that drives the oil pump. Worked on a TR4 with a friend who was having having timing issues. Found his neighbour had turned the distributer 180 degrees. Got that sorted and fired the TR4 up. Noticed there was no oil at the rockers. When I pulled the distributer drive gear I spotted the woodruff key laying on the ledge below where the gear runs.
David

 

[charleyf]

Do a simple check to determine if oil is being pumped. One way is to pull off the valve cover and see if you have oil there. Maybe pull the coil wire off and crank the engine if fresh oil is not obvious.
My recent fresh start showed no oil pressure. Reason was the line to the gauge was plugged.
Start simple.
Charley

 

[Joel Lester]

Thanks guys for all the insight! John - you are a stud! Thanks for providing me with all that info for break-in. I will follow it to a tee.
I have an update.... Thankfully good news. I watched the Rusty Beauties video on priming the engine with oil - a very recent one on a TR4 engine. I tried it last night and I've got oil pressure! A lot actually - about 85 PSI from cranking over with the starter.
I took off the distributor pedestal and drive gear and turned the oil pump drive shaft counterclockwise with a drill. It was pretty obvious that I was moving oil right away - and BTW... DavisApp... when I took out the distributor gear low and behold the woodruff key was seen sitting on the edge of the bushing! Now... I'm not totally sure if it fell out when I removed the gear or not but thanks for pointing that out. Anyhow, once primed I but those pieces back on and used the starter again and boom - excellent oil pressure.
When putting this engine together I used a healthy amount of "Driven" assembly lube so I feel confident that there weren't any dry parts rubbing on each other before oil got to them. I also have Amsoil break-in oil in there so that should help with a nice break-in period for the rings/cylinders.
Getting very close to hearing this engine for the first time. Exciting!!
Joel

 

[bobhustead]

And John, as usual, has a good point. All metal to metal contact points (including cam to lifter) have to be lubed with STP, lubriplate or the like during assembly.